Is mma judging flawed, corrupt or incompetent?

Do judges have access to round by round stats? It might help them with their decison making
 
Fatback96 said:
Let’s get AI to judge fights. It can’t be any worse than what we have right now.

I’m tired of “incompetence” being an excuse. If they’re never held to a standard, they’ll never change.
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Good enough for government work.
 
Rear Naked Toke said:
I think that if anyone fails for PEDs we should all know about it immediately, it is banned and punishable in MMA, as a sport, although Darren Till doesn't think we should call this sport a sport. If there is to be any legitimacy to MMA, as a sport, it should be treated less as an entertainment property. Hard to do when it's treated as sports entertainment, but legal intentional violence is hard to market otherwise.

Jesus, the more I type, the less it sounds like I'm a fan of MMA. Which is the furthest thing from the truth. I just hate the way it caters to all the wrong things.
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Fuck that lets go back to the good old days.
prideroidcontract.jpg
 
If your job and responsibility are to be a judge of something, and the way you do your job is flawed, then you are incompetent at your job. Right?

I don't think MMA judging at the highest levels is corrupt in the US.
I can remember a few controversies where judges let a beating or submission go way too long.
And I think sherdog generally agrees that the number of absolute robberies is pretty few.
IMO - not too many people are screaming robbery about the albazi fight. Maybe that's because not very many people watched it? I don't know.

If a fight is close, the judges are always human. None are perfect.
Dana has been correct about the ultimate solution for a very long time: don't let it go to the judges.

If albazi couldn't finish kara, and vice versa, then I guess it was a close fight?

Personally, I'm amazed at the number of contestants who seem willing to coast the final round of a close fight because they think they have already won a decision. That single mistake causes more "surprises" than anything else, IMO.
 
DapperDave said:
If your job and responsibility are to be a judge of something, and the way you do your job is flawed, then you are incompetent at your job. Right?

I don't think MMA judging at the highest levels is corrupt in the US.
I can remember a few controversies where judges let a beating or submission go way too long.
And I think sherdog generally agrees that the number of absolute robberies is pretty few.
IMO - not too many people are screaming robbery about the albazi fight. Maybe that's because not very many people watched it? I don't know.

If a fight is close, the judges are always human. None are perfect.
Dana has been correct about the ultimate solution for a very long time: don't let it go to the judges.

If albazi couldn't finish kara, and vice versa, then I guess it was a close fight?

Personally, I'm amazed at the number of contestants who seem willing to coast the final round of a close fight because they think they have already won a decision. That single mistake causes more "surprises" than anything else, IMO.
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When i say flawed, im talking about the judging criteria being flawed. Effective striking, grappling and octagon control. And the round by round 10 point system borrowed from boxing.

many people including fighters, trainers and fans have said the 10 point system doesnt work for mma because boxing is only punches and mma has more variety of strikes, and grappling as well as dominant positioning.

How do you score a round where a guy lands a knockdown, but his opponent survives the onslought, gets a takedown and controls the round with pitter patter for 3.5 minutes, he did less damage but had the grappling and octagon control.
 
dont remember which fight but it was something like one judge gave 30-27 to a fighter and other two judges 30-27 to the other fighter
 
Almost Everytime I see people crying robbery and I finally get to watch the fight I almost never understand what people are watching. Albazi won round 3 and 1 and 2 were close enough that I can see an argument for Albazi even though I ultimately had KKF winning round one and the fight 3-2.

Giving Albazi round 4 is bizarre though.
 
Mostly incompetent.

Some of the rules are silly but overall it would still be fine if you had more competent judges who have atleast stepped on a gym mat a few times in their life.
 
Bearknuckle said:
When i say flawed, im talking about the judging criteria being flawed. Effective striking, grappling and octagon control. And the round by round 10 point system borrowed from boxing.
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I see your point.
If the rules of the game are flawed, it would be harder to judge fights consistently.
Re-phrased - "Are MMA rules flawed, or are judges corrupt, or are judges incompetent?"

Tradition probably is a factor.
In Boxing, nearly all rounds are 10-9.
That means nearly all rounds are very close rounds?
We know that's not true.
Boxing outcomes would be more accurately represented in scores if judges gave out more 10-7, 10-5, maybe even 10-3's.

Problem:
In a 10-rd Boxing match, if Red barely survives R1 and R2 with 5-10 scores, but then Red wins R3-R10 with 10-9 scores, Red wins eight rounds and receives 90 points, but Blue has 92 points but only won 2 rounds.
So who wins that fight? Blue with 92 points, or Red with 8 rounds?

This problem can occur in various different scenarios. You could have a close fight where Red wins six-10-9 rounds, loses three 9-10 rounds, and gets totally dominated but not finished in the tenth.

Maybe this is why 10-9 scores are so prevalent.
If the losing fighter always receives 1 less point than the winning fighter in each round, you never end up in the situation where one fighter won more points but the other fighter won more rounds.

If the 10-9 system is a poor fit for boxing, likely it's a worse fit for mma.

In a way, it's similar to weight-cutting.
Everyone agrees cutting is bad, but no one fixes it.
 
Bearknuckle said:
Before u guys defend the actual fight…i wanna say had no dog in the kara-france albazi fight. Could care less about either guy. So this isnt a complaint on the particular fight, but a question about ufc judging on the whole.

This stuff has been happening for far too long and nobody has done anything to change it.

it has to be 3 things:

1. the rules of how they judge is flawed as it leads to way too much controversial or bad decisions.

2. corruption, are judges just paid to give certain fighters wins or are they betting or telling their associates to bet and getting a cut.

3. The judges are just incompetent and don’t know how to score fights?

It has to be one of those things, right?
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If you have judges, then, by definition, you are going to have subjective decisions. It's not new, to any sport, and won't end.

You'll get less variability if you have more formal training and better official compensation, in all likelihood. I'm pretty sure Dana and company prefer outrage and controversy, which bring attention, good or bad, over having to spend more to improve the quality of the product, and, definitely, over spending to improve the integrity of the sport.
 
fzoid4454 said:
If you have judges, then, by definition, you are going to have subjective decisions. It's not new, to any sport, and won't end.

You'll get less variability if you have more formal training and better official compensation, in all likelihood. I'm pretty sure Dana and company prefer outrage and controversy, which bring attention, good or bad, over having to spend more to improve the quality of the product, and, definitely, over spending to improve the integrity of the sport.
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True. Controversial decisions usually cause rematches and the stock of the loser doesn’t go down much, its a promoters dream. Bad decisions fuel the outrage and controversy which sell fights.
 
CrimsonFan said:
I thought it was funny that the commentary crew was discounting octagon control. The judges clearly still count that very highly.
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But circling isnt losing octagon control, is it? I thought octagon control was pinning someone against the fence or being on top.

when 2 fighters are standing, and one guy is circling, it should be neutral, or are they scoring walking forward a little?
 
Bearknuckle said:
But circling isnt losing octagon control, is it? I thought octagon control was pinning someone against the fence or being on top.

when 2 fighters are standing, and one guy is circling, it should be neutral, or are they scoring walking forward a little?
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They score aggression and octagon control so if you're constantly chasing someone I think you're being aggressive
 
CrimsonFan said:
They score aggression and octagon control so if you're constantly chasing someone I think you're being aggressive
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How do u judge a guy chasing and missing, over a guy backpedalling and landing?
 
MMA judging is….

SUBJECTIVE .

And it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
 
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