Is Jones somewhat mirroring Shogun's injury prone career?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Fyreborn, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    Prior to the Jones-Shogun fight, everyone was talking about how Jones was basically the new Shogun. A young kid who just destroys everything in his path and makes veterans look like fodder.

    But while Jones' injuries haven't matched Shogun's multiple ACL tears, it does seem the guy gets injured in every fight.

    He got his arm hurt vs. Vitor, his toe snapped in complete fluke fashion against Chael (actually slightly reminiscent of Shogun breaking his arm vs. Coleman), and now suffered multiple injuries including a leg injury vs. Alex.

    Shogun's injuries were definitely worse and shortened his career more. But I am getting concerned for Jones' repeated inability to stay healthy.

    I don't think he'll have the career freefall Shogun had (twice - Shogun's recovery from the first freefall was astounding).

    But I feel like Jones isn't going to be the same fighter 4-5 years from now. These injuries will add up. I don't think he'll have the longevity of, say, a GSP. And definitely not that of Anderson!

    I think Jones in his early 30's is really going to start feeling the effects of the wear and tear.

    Especially if he gets into more wars like Gus. Jones so far had been suffering injuries despite escaping almost all his fights without his opponent doing shit. Now if he actually starts getting challenged, the injuries might become worse.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Arkridge

    Arkridge Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's like you said. Jones' injures have all been minor compared to Shogun. I don't see them setting him back at all, and even if it does down the road, he's already somewhat cemented himself as #1 LHW of all time. Plus, I don't see him being the type to tarnish his legacy like shogun is starting to do. If he starts to lose, I see Jones retiring in a heart beat. By that time, I'm sure he'll have made enough money to live comfortable. I'm sure he'll open up gyms and make guest appearances too if he needs a little more.
     
  3. GrindingANARCHY

    GrindingANARCHY Banned Banned

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    Knee surgeries end a lot of athletes careers.

    Broken toes don't.
     
  4. Trollgrappler

    Trollgrappler Gold Belt

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    They might if your strength is wrestling. It's a mental thing if he fucked up his toe pushing off on it then he pushes just a little less after it's injured or maybe he doesn't who knows. Injuries can have a huge mental effect on fighters.
     
  5. Jagan Eye

    Jagan Eye Purple Belt

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    Not to the point where it permanently dampers a professional fighter's ability.

    It's a toe. A fucking toe.


    TS is ridiculous trying to compare a broken toe to an ACL rupture. If I wasn't convinced TS is trying to be serious I'd be laughing about this.

    EDIT:

    Just went back and actually read all of TS's original post. Let me apologize and say what you're saying is sensible (although I still disagree, anybody would've gotten their arm tweaked from that Vitor armbar and having fragile toes won't damage a career like a serious injury can). As long as JBJ stays out of the way of real serious injuries (ACL rutures, any sort of serious damage to his back, etc.) he should be good for the long term.

    But TS, your thread title is just asking for confrontation.
     
  6. GrindingANARCHY

    GrindingANARCHY Banned Banned

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    While you have a point, I'm sure most fighters would take broken arms, fingers, or toes over 3 knee surgeries. Shit a lot of athletes lose a step after 1.

    Only rare exception is Adrian Peterson.
     
  7. MikeLovesTacosX

    MikeLovesTacosX @mikelovestacosx

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    Jon Jones won't fight past 33.
     
  8. KarmaPolice

    KarmaPolice Banned Banned

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    It's the first time he took a lot of damage! The toe, give me a break. The arm? Meisha had worse. Quit with all the Jones hate today.
     
  9. Jagan Eye

    Jagan Eye Purple Belt

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    A lot of Sherdoggers get really ambiguous and just say "knee surgeries".

    Some injuries and subsequent surgeries are worse or better than others.

    Case in point: Chris Weidman has had many, MANY knee surgeries for his meniscus (essentially cartilage in your knee afaik). Very common problem for serious wrestlers. Whatever the case none of that has made him look physically deteriorated. A meniscus tear is baby stuff compared to an ACL injury.

    Mauricio Shogun Rua has RUPTURED BOTH of his ACL's 3 times (across both knees though, twice for one knee and once for another iirc). Most professional athletes in other sports consider an ACL tear a death sentence. Why? Because there's a high probability that you WON'T ever be the same athlete you were before. It's the kind of injury that has permanent effects even after you heal. It robs an athlete of their athleticism. Like mentioned earlier, the ONLY professional athlete in any sport I can think of that came back from ONE ACL tear as the SAME athlete he was previously is Adrian Peterson but that guy is just blessed with freak genetics. Now did Shogun go on after his ACL rupture and win the UFC belt? Yeah he did. But in the bigger picture did or has Shogun ever looked like the same Shogun people crowned the unofficial #1 LHW in the world for years? No. After that first rupture his athleticism, core strength/balance,movement, just all the physical attributes that helped give him one of the most legendary runs in the sport faded. He was just lucky enough to be able to reinvent himself as a fighter and catch a second wind in his career

    Just let that distinction be clear
     
  10. countswagula

    countswagula Gold Belt

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    Fighting and training at the highest level demand an intensity that leaves fighters prone to injuries. Shogun and Jones both got to that #1 spot very young, and so they started putting a lot of strain on their bodies early and that hurts longevity. That said, Jones hasn't yet had any injuries as serious as Shogun's, let's just hope it stays that way.
     
  11. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    I thought I made it pretty clear that Shogun's injuries were much worse. Also I was comparing the broken toe to the broken arm, as in both were flukes. Saying I was comparing a broken toe to ACL tears is a strawman argument, I did not do that.
    That's the thing though, JBJ has suffered a surprising number of injuries when he barely even gets hit in his fights (until Gus).

    I just wonder if when things get harder - and I think they will for Jones, with younger guys coming up rather than old vets (Machida was the only vet that I thought was still in his prime when Jones beat him). So when things get harder will he be even more injury prone?

    That may or may not happen, injuries are highly random. Maybe in the future Jones' luck with injuries will change. Or, maybe he is simply injury prone. I was just looking for opinions on what people think is more likely- Jones has had bad luck, or is he injury prone, and will that slow him down? Will that shorten the peak of his career?

    Unless he has a horrific injury he won't suffer Shogun's freefall, I already said this. But I do think people assumed Jones would reign supreme at LHW for ages, and I think his injuries might take a toll quicker than previously expected.
    I just want discussion. I really don't see how there's anything confrontational or aggressive about my thread title. It seems neutral as can be IMO.
     
  12. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    How in the world is this Jones "hate"? What??
     
  13. Jagan Eye

    Jagan Eye Purple Belt

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    You completely disregarded my apology to you in my edit and admission that you're saying makes sense in the big picture...

    Anyhow, again until JBJ starts having serious issues with his knees or his back or something I don't forsee any serious health issues.

    I mean he's injuries afaik has been the tweaked arm he got from that Vitor armbar, the toe mishap vs. Chael, and supposedly there's some sort of foot issue going on right now that he sustained vs. Gus.

    The Vitor armbar and Chael toe mishap should be disregarded as things that can be attributed to being "injury prone". ANYBODY, ANY FIGHTER who tries to endure an armbar like that without tapping will get their arm hurt. Any fighter.

    The toe injury vs. Chael was something of a freak accident. Jon took a misstep and his toe got jacked up like that. Fine.

    So at least regarding those two injuries, he didn't sustain them because he's injury prone. Most if not all fighters in those situations would've been hurt to whatever degree in those situations.

    I have no clue what the deal is with JBJ's foot/ankle atm so I can't really speak on that.
     
  14. GrindingANARCHY

    GrindingANARCHY Banned Banned

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    Why beat a dead horse? Maybe I should have been more specific with my posts but I was just making a point that Jones injuries < Shogun's injuries.
     
  15. Fyreborn

    Fyreborn Brown Belt

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    My mistake, from the way you worded it I thought you were responding to someone else. Sorry.
    Yes, this is exactly the conversation I was interested in. Because some athletes most definitely *are* injury prone. And not even in the same nagging injury re-occurring sense - some athletes get all sorts of different injuries and it becomes a clear pattern where their body is just prone to injuries.

    I was wondering if people thought Jones' injuries were just bad luck, or is his body somewhat fragile?

    Right now I think it's a combination of both. He's had bad luck, but I do see these injuries taking a toll on him.

    I was pretty convinced before that Jones would inevitably pass Anderson and Fedor as #1 P4P GOAT. Now I'm not sure he'll have the longevity to pull that off.

    Anderson and Fedor were dominant for a decade. Can Jones do that? Right now, I'm leaning towards no.
     
  16. teammb1

    teammb1 Banned Banned

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    No because he doesnt use them as excuses
     
  17. I think Shogun has had the worst injury history I can think of besides anyone named Greg Oden. I hope Bones doesnt go down that road, say what you want about his personality he is a great fighter.
     
  18. spooNN

    spooNN Black Belt

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    His injuries don't compare to Shoguns. If anyone is mirroring Shoguns career it has to be Cruz.
     
  19. elzar

    elzar Red Belt

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    (i cut down the post just to save space a bit)

    yeah, but that toe was pretty fucked. i wondered right away if he would end up with arthritis down the line. that's pretty bad in terms of being able to move well and just train/do road work, whatever. shaq sat out a lot due to an arthritic toe. his problem was probably weight related, not so much due to a single trauma. but the big toe is pretty key to movement and balance.
     
  20. Peregrine01

    Peregrine01 Green Belt

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    When you kick as much as jones and shogun does you're bound to get foot/knee injuries. Shoguns were far worse. 3 ACL tears? Most fighters don't even recover from 1.
     

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