Is Jake Paul an above average boxer?

[Doctor Grudge]

He is 188 cm and weighs 107 kg. He is heavyweight.
Tommy Fury - again a very good boxer, we are talking about top100 world boxer.
It is like saying a serie A player can't play

What heavyweight fights has Jake Paul (or Fury) had? Just because you weight over 200 pounds doesn't make you a heavyweight boxer.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I feel like you're arguing semantics.

Are you saying that whenever an MMA fighter is training using boxing gloves, they are using boxing? Because...alright then, I guess.

I'm not sure how that is applicable at all to the topic which is about the sport of boxing.

There is actual boxing class in MMA gyms, it wouldn't be called "BOXING CLASS" if Muay Thai was the same thing.

You said that boxing is trained 1/4th of the time (that's what you said, not me), because the other 3/4ths are trained in Muay Thai, Wrestling, and BJJ, then it would be less than 1/4th, because you overlooked actual MMA training - which definitely is not "boxing".

Funny, I feel you're the one playing semantics. You do realize that they bring in actual boxing coaches to train MMA fighters. Right? Just one example being that GSP went to Freddie Roach and trained at Wild Card Gym. BJ Penn & Anderson Silva did briefly as well. My point is that they're working on their hands at least 25% of the time. It's illogical to assume it's less when most of the activity in a typical MMA bout literally consists of punching.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Funny, I feel you're the one playing semantics. You do realize that they bring in actual boxing coaches to train MMA fighters. Right? Just one example being that GSP went to Freddie Roach and trained at Wild Card Gym. BJ Penn & Anderson Silva did briefly as well. My point is that they're working on their hands at least 25% of the time. It's illogical to assume it's less when most of the activity in a typical MMA bout literally consists of punching.

They bring in Judo coaches too, are they training Judo 25% of the time?

Maybe they are doing 25% Judo, 25% Muay Thai, 25% Wrestling, 25% Boxing, 25% MMA, 25% BJJ. Anderson Silva also saw Steven Segal a couple of times, that's another 25% of whatever that guy does aside from eating.

The fact that you are referencing GSP meeting Freddie Roach highlights how much of an exception that really is, because that is from a long ass time ago.

I trained at a gym that is better than GSP's, and there are no coaches anywhere near the level of Freddie Roach there, much less regulars.



If you want to say they are using their hands 25%, then sure. You are right, most using your hands is the most common way MMA fighters engage. I'm just saying, that isn't really "boxing" (we are speaking English, so boxing means Western Boxing, IE the sport that Jake Paul participates in).

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

They bring in Judo coaches too, are they training Judo 25% of the time?

Maybe they are doing 25% Judo, 25% Muay Thai, 25% Wrestling, 25% Boxing, 25% MMA, 25% BJJ. Anderson Silva also saw Steven Segal a couple of times, that's another 25% of whatever that guy does aside from eating.

The fact that you are referencing GSP meeting Freddie Roach highlights how much of an exception that really is, because that is from a long ass time ago.

I trained at a gym that is better than GSP's, and there are no coaches anywhere near the level of Freddie Roach there, much less regulars.



If you want to say they are using their hands 25%, then sure. You are right, most using your hands is the most common way MMA fighters engage. I'm just saying, that isn't really "boxing" (we are speaking English, so boxing means Western Boxing, IE the sport that Jake Paul participates in).

They wouldn't be training Judo much at all because it's proven to not be nearly as effective in the cage. The most famous example of it working at a high level is Rousey but that didn't last long (Fedor & Khabib trained and even competed in Judo but they're more Sambo-based). Boxing & wrestling are the two most important skills you can have as an MMA fighter. They allow you to control the fight standing and on the ground. If a submission grappler can't take you down they're almost worthless. Few submission threats even exist on the feet such as the standing guillotine. Or, if you're lucky you might hit a flying armbar or a standing front or RNC.

Boxing in MMA is called "Boxing for MMA" or "MMA boxing." I shouldn't have to specify. Of course the sports aren't the same but fundamentally the techniques are. When a grappler wants to set up a takedown they'll usually punch in order to do it. Then they'll transition to wrestling/grappling. No, the Roach example is just the most famous one. All of today's current UFC champs also have actual boxing coaches. It's always been that way. And when you ask a fighter what they're training they'll say they were cross-training to sharpen their "boxing."

 

[ferrisjso]

In the sport? No. In the Cruiseweight division he one scorecard away from being ranked top 20 so hes far above average in his weight class.

 

[Hagler]

You mean at boxing ?

 

[pugilistico]

Yes, Ngannou did say that Fury hit (punched) him the hardest he's ever been hit. Oddly enough he said that he didn't really feel Joshua's shots even though they knocked him senseless. I don't really buy it. The first big shot that Joshua landed not only sat him down it made his body slide across the canvas. There was a ton of force behind it.

Well when you get knocked down silly like that, you actually don't feel it since you're so dazed I guess. I've been knocked out in a match and strangely enough I didn't feel it. It didn't hurt at all. Felt like I was transported from standing to laying down on the canvas haha. I obviously had a concussion but I felt fine both later that night and after. Then I've had headaches after hard sparring were I wasn't put out. Maybe if you get hit cleanly on the button and KO'ed, you actually don't feel it as much?

No theyre not. Thats a common myth among MMA fans.
"They have these vast arsenals"
Most can do a few things, have something that there good at, and thats it.
You can watch fights that are primarly boxing, with a kick here and there, one falls down and the other just jumps on and swings.
Thats not a vast arsenal.

One thing I'm surprised I don't see much in MMA is elbows. Standing elbows are legal right? I don't know why then fighters aren't throwing them bows like Muay thai fighters do.

 

[ferrisjso]

It showed how piss poor MMA fighters really are at fighting. That's what The Jake Experience has brought us.

Francis is a HW they don't count because they spent most of their MMA careers boxing.

Anderson was unusually gifted at the sweet science.

 

[ferrisjso]

Jake wouldn't dare fight an actual talented prospect like Whittaker or Hedges whom I actually mentioned in one of these threads, both of them would take Paul to school and make him look stupid.

Now granted both have way more experience due to their times as amateurs but still that would never happen, Jake only fights guys he knows he can beat, he already made that mistake once with Fury and he won't make it again.

Tbf Jake Pauls best excuse is that everyone does that. Before Jake Paul came anywhere near boxing prospects were known for only fighting guys they know they can beat. So Jake can say "well everyone else does that" and its honestly true.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Well when you get knocked down silly like that, you actually don't feel it since you're so dazed I guess. I've been knocked out in a match and strangely enough I didn't feel it. It didn't hurt at all. Felt like I was transported from standing to laying down on the canvas haha. I obviously had a concussion but I felt fine both later that night and after. Then I've had headaches after hard sparring were I wasn't put out. Maybe if you get hit cleanly on the button and KO'ed, you actually don't feel it as much?

Ngannou said that he felt Joshua's punches but he was surprised that they were able to knock him down because they didn't feel that hard. Joshua's timing was spot on against Ngannou. He was even making some adjustments in the very first round.

Anyway, when guys name opponents that hit them the hardest it's almost never who you'd expect them to be. Canelo said that Trout hit him the hardest.

 

[pugilistico]

Ngannou said that he felt Joshua's punches but he was surprised that they were able to knock him down because they didn't feel that hard. Joshua's timing was spot on against Ngannou. He was even making some adjustments in the very first round.

Anyway, when guys name opponents that hit them the hardest it's almost never who you'd expect them to be. Canelo said that Trout hit him the hardest.

The hardest I've ever been punched was when I was sparring a guy two weightclasses below me. It was scary how hard the guy could hit. Every punch rattled me and I got scared to engage. My trainer was yelling me for fighting scared against a smaller guy but I really felt like I was going to get knocked out. I've sparred national champs and bigger guys who's punches didn't hurt as much.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

The hardest I've ever been punched was when I was sparring a guy two weightclasses below me. It was scary how hard the guy could hit. Every punch rattled me and I got scared to engage. My trainer was yelling me for fighting scared against a smaller guy but I really felt like I was going to get knocked out. I've sparred national champs and bigger guys who's punches didn't hurt as much.

Sounds like this smaller guy was quite heavy-handed then. The hardest I got hit in the gym was also against a smaller guy but he wasn't two weight classes smaller. At the time he was probably around 180-185 lbs and I was 195 or so.

 

[froggyluv]

One thing I'm surprised I don't see much in MMA is elbows. Standing elbows are legal right? I don't know why then fighters aren't throwing them bows like Muay thai fighters do.

because alotta guys/gyms dont really train with them in sparring as they do too much potential damage. Usually you'll just show your elbow but not make contact in sparring but in Thai gyms they are 2nd nature as they DO train with them when hard sparring. Guys like Jon Jones threw them alot -even invented his own little style "elbow-jab" against Rashaad Evans on the fly. You'll generally see MMA guys think and maybe use it if within Hook range or clinched youll see it the most but its funny you can almost see them think "1 beat" and then throw as where in Thai fighters just Go

 

[tank666]

Already lost to below average fighter. Think he is a good YT boxer if that makes sense.

 

[djacobox372]

Francis is a HW they don't count because they spent most of their MMA careers boxing.

Anderson was unusually gifted at the sweet science.

Jakes fight with anderson looked like a work.

 

[ferrisjso]

Jakes fight with anderson looked like a work.

Regardless Anderson beat JCC Jr in his mid 30s the previous bout.


CW is probably P4P the worst division in the sport of boxing. But Jake Paul is on the cusp of being ranked in said division. He is a far above average in that weight class.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Exactly. There are thousands of professional boxers.. most of them are cans. Jake must be better than most of them. I don't see much point to "above average" or "below average" discussions without any context.

Can Jake beat a top 50 fighter? a top 100? a top 300? what is his ceiling? That is a better question.

I think the kid put a lot of effort but you either have it or not.. and he does not. He compensates with his hard work and dedication and maybe some PEDs but he does not have the talent.
Guys like Wilder (boxing) and Cyril Gane (MT and MMA) managed to go to the top starting their sports in their 20s.. that is talent. In Gane case he also half assed his entire career.

I have trained combat sports for 20 years (I'm 37) and I became pretty good at it at some point... for an amateur level. The difference between myself and the pro guys was laughable. It wasn't something I could train for.. they just born to be better than me at that specific sport.

I think Jake can potentially beat top 50 or 100 guys. Rankings don't mean a ton, there's guys in the top 100 with tons of upside, potential and athletic ability ontop of their amateur pedigree and then there's guys who've been around, aged out, are slow etc. That said, Jake would definitely lose to guys in the top 50 and 100 too. I think Jake is going to ride out the spectacle fights as long as he's making bank off of it and then I think he will if nothing takes a bad turn...try to fight the shittiest champ possible to get a belt and a big attention.

 

[froggyluv]

I think Jake can potentially beat top 50 or 100 guys. Rankings don't mean a ton, there's guys in the top 100 with tons of upside, potential and athletic ability ontop of their amateur pedigree and then there's guys who've been around, aged out, are slow etc. That said, Jake would definitely lose to guys in the top 50 and 100 too. I think Jake is going to ride out the spectacle fights as long as he's making bank off of it and then I think he will if nothing takes a bad turn...try to fight the shittiest champ possible to get a belt and a big attention.

I dont see Jake getting anywhere near a Belt unless they invent a BMF belt in boxing too. Most to almost all Boxers grow up poor and hungry with an insatiable drive to fight their way to the top wanting to see their name in the Marquee as well as 'get dat payday' -its all they think about and what carries them thru the hellscape of punishment to the top. Jakes trying to circumvent all that, and just grab his glory from his *whoever his fanbase is* and loving the attention of beating once top MMA fighters. Remember early on each fight , majority of people were convinced that 'Real Fighters' like Ben Askren and Tyron Woodley would destroy jake just outta shear toughness and combat experience.

Anyways hes already been at the Top of cards to far better Boxers and has made generational wealth, to think of him having the heart and talent to take on the real deal guys in the top 50 or stealing a belt -Id think he'd have less success than a filthy rich Conor McGregor who lost all appetites for a real fight.

 

[pugilistico]

If Paul really wants to get better at boxing, he needs to start fighting ranked competition instead of old retired mma guys. He can probably hone his skills enough that he can be competitive but he probably won't make as much money.

 

[Deaths Head]

I voted above just bc he makes slight mistakes but he’s a solid boxer if we’re talking random boxing guys .he’ll never box as good as me despite the millions he has it’s to late for that but give the guy credit with all that money he’d have to work his butt off just to enter a ring he came from beta male to an alpha ..theres limits though ,he wouldn’t win one round against me bc his lights would be out inside 2 rounds . LoL..

And I’m ready ..me yesterday. @50 .