Is it bad to land a clean punch and back off?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by fightingrabbit, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    I find while sparring, i usually pretty counterpunchy. And when i do happen to land a clean straight, i usually hop back out into safe range. So hop in, bam, then hop back out. Lately i've been wondering, is this something i need to unlearn? Should i be pouncing on the guy after i know i've made contact with my straight? Its just habit on my part.

    The best way i can explain it is like Machida in MMA, how he lands a clean strike and just pushes off or gets himself out of range. Somewhat picking them apart. I mean, The punch lands nicely, but i just dont know if i should be all over him after it.
     
  2. Gramps

    Gramps Banned Banned

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    Depends on the situation. If you've got him rocked or shelled up and if you see a good situation for example if he has his guard high smack him with a straight int he gut or put some hooks on him if he's open, I mean if he's wide open or something you can atleast have the common curtisy to make sure he doesn't do that mistake again.
     
  3. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's called "admiring your work"...you land a good shot, step back into what you feel is safe distance, and do what's called "taking a picture" or "posing". You don't have to go apeshit after you land a punch. But posing is what got Tommy Hearns knocked out by Iran Barkley.
     
  4. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Yes its bad, for your sparring partners. They need to learn how to cope with taking a big shot and despite that continue fighting or at least protect themselves until they recover.

    But also, if you 'rock' someone just take it easy on the punches. Stick to them yes, but tone it down on the punches so no one gets needlessly hurt. You want your training partners to get confidence from taking a big shot and dealing with the pressure rather than instilling a fear into them that as soon as they take a big shot they are fucked.
     
  5. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    yes. Admiring my work is exactly it. I mean i have a good amount of sparring experience, but i've always had this fucking problem of landing a clean straight, hopping out of range, and then im standing there out of range like "shit i could have landed at least 2 more before backing out." I think im too defensive and wary when it comes to really pressuring someone on the ropes and trading. Its whats really been buggin me lately about my game. Im gunshy, and thats why i say its like a machida syndrome when i box, I go in and land with a good straight and just end up circling out of range and lose my chance to combo while they're stunned. I need less of this nonsense and moar pressures!

    But alas, i guess this is an issue that i can only change on my own. Thats it, im changing my mindset in the ring.

    fuck i know, its funny you bring this up, recently my trainer put me in there to work with a new guy. But when i did end up pouncing on him, i really went hard, i knocked him to the floor also. I felt real fuckin shitty about it cus i didnt want to dishearten the guy. But man, he was alot taller, and instincts just kicked in, when i got to inside, i mauled. :icon_sad:

    hopefully he aint taking it too bad. I remember when we were talking about this in the some other thread in the boxing forum about going too hard on new guys. At first my stance on it was, oh well, they learn from it, but once i laid this guy out, i felt it couldnt have been good for him and i've been lookin to explain my actions to him.
     
  6. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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    I was told that is what I do as well, and I never realized it was wrong until it was pointed out to me! Maybe its just me, but more people need to be told what this behavoir is when they first start out. I think its because when you are learning amatuar style, its all about hitting more than you get hit, and the thought developes that a clean hit with a retreat is a perfect tactic.
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Funny you mention that Ayin...

    Study guys like Wes Ferguson, Joan Guzman, Martin Castillo, and even Joel Casamayor, and Diosbelys Hurtado. They all have that poppy Amateur style. We see it a lot in the Gym. Pap-pap-run. Pap-pap-pap-step out.

    A friend of mine was talking to me and I was asking him about this style. He's one of the best Boxing minds I know and he said guys like this who come out of the Amateurs don't translate well to the Pros because they have to have range to win a fight. They have to be able to hit and move or else they come apart.

    I've sparred this kid a lot in our Gym who is a former GG winner for California I think, and he has the EXACT same style. I notice I do my best against him when I step forward and pressure (not my disposition because I prefer to counter-punch). But when I use my size and take away his range, kid's practically useless. That's because he relies on speed, timing, some pop, but he tends to pose when he lands shots and has to scurry away when I come in. In the end, it just looks like I'm bullying him around.
     
  8. Bogdan Bozhinov

    Bogdan Bozhinov Amateur Fighter

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    Yeah, I have that problem too, especially when I feel I'm much better than the opponent. I noticed that like TS, I go harder when facing bigger/stronger/better opponents.
     
  9. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    damn, i havent been an ammy for long or competed, so i dont think i've developed anything too bad from it in terms of fighting habits. But i also havent developed anything good also, such as the punches in bunches that seems to the big point as a amateur. I think thats my main problem, looking for the big punch, and not really setting it up with the combinations. Ya think 9-10 months is still too early to really develop a style and become efficient at stringing up those combos? When i'm unsure like this makes me feel pretty fresh at this sport..I mean i can throw all the punches on the bag nicely, but i cant string them in the ring. It feels like theres a mental block.

    Also KK, you said the ammy kid relied too much on speed, timing, and pop. So what attributes would be better to have in terms of longetivity and style , for the Pros and Boxing in general? Because i know speed doesnt stay with you forever, so i dont want to rely mainly on that. What attributes should i try to develop to ensure that, when i aint so quick no more, that i can still hold my own? Head movements? Defensive hands, like parries and such? Also i dont think i hit all that hard either, so i dont know if i can fall back on that. My trainer tells me im fast. And i cringe at that sometimes. Because i really dont want to be that speedy fucker that starts to degenerate as a fighter once the speed leaves him.
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's tough to say. Guys like Bernard Hopkins and Mike McCallum were much different Fighters when they were younger. Both of these two used to rely on a lot of strength, very hard punching, and bully tactics. Then Mike ran into Sumbu Kalambay and got out-boxed. Bernard ran into a guy named Roy Jones Jr. and had the same result. Then both Mike and Bernard became much more savvy and relied mostly on things like committed body-work, foot-movement, good defense, consistent workrate (as opposed to fighting in spurts), and which punches they could land the most.

    Funny thing is as he's deteriorated physically, Roy is doing the same thing. Roy isn't a BAD Fighter now, he's actually very good. He's just not the virtuoso he used to be. Marco Antonio Barrera also fit this category in his later career.
     
  11. Chonbody

    Chonbody Guest

    Good thread.
     
  12. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    hah, yeah that puts things in perspective.

    in other words. learn to 'Box'
     
  13. IMAF#1

    IMAF#1 Banned Banned

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    You should want to be able to do both. And when you're in a bout do whats best for what the situation calls for and how your opponent reacts to being hit with a clean punch.

    However, you will always have one you prefer over the other. I'm like you as in I like to just move in, get a clean shot, and move out. Its what I'm most comfortable with, and thats what you should be doing in a fight. But you should always want to be able to do stuff both ways.
     
  14. Payak

    Payak Brown Belt Professional Fighter

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    Never back off without at least throwing a jab, it stops them from following you.
     
  15. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i do the same thing, im really judicious w/my punches/strikes, potshotting (using lead rights, jabs) & 1/2's; i am not a boxer per' se, but i sparred w/alot among other strikers and they have pointed that out that im not very busy and that i don't put my shots together past the single shot or the three shot combo. Then i step out, or move away; something like what bhops did to eastman/wright, instead of pumping the jab he would potshot, move to keep his opp from being able to set his feet to eff fire off shots or eff/gauge the range to land or even attempt..basically forcing them to walk into ur lead shots, one/two's, check hooks and uppercuts.

    I used to admire alot of my work, which works when ur decidely better than your opp athletically or tech or they have limited boxing exp/skills; cus people w/good exp learn how to adjust to your timing of when u like step back, step out and/or step w/u or cut u off. Or they will get ur timing to the point they can fire back when ur admiring, or counter when u when u actually throw your shot; Unless your just that good at what ur doing, an even then u have to have the ability to box on the inside, sit on ur shots, put shots together or throw alot of shots otherwise u get bullied, roughed up and generally put on the def.

    cus roy jones has always done this, bhops does alot of this now

    in regards to the speed thing u always have it, u just don't have it to the degree u did at a young age; secondly u don't have it over the length of a whole round or boxing match, u have it in spots or for limited periods. roy jones is still faster than alot of guys, he just can't maintain it over the full length of a boxing match; its just in spots, exploding w/off or jumping in or out w/quickshots. But now that he is a step behind he gets countered when he does that going out or caught coming in, the speed is always there; just not to the high degree or consistency.
     
  16. black koala

    black koala Banned Banned

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    Giving your opponent a chance to recover is never a good strategy. Constant pressure can make all the difference.
     
  17. Dogmeat

    Dogmeat Blue Belt

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    I found coming from a (mcdojo) karate background, i'd gotten into the habit of hitting someone and then stopping because it was how we were taught - a "one hit kills them" mentality, then you pause to carry on sparring

    One of the many habits I had to break.

    Nothing like someone taking your one "you're dead" punch and returning fire with 4-5 punches to get you out of that habit though!
     
  18. Stompede

    Stompede Yellow Belt

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    I also pose a lot when sparring, I do however train MMA and I have always had the view that using such a hit and run strategy is most efficient if you want to maintain a standup fight. Since if i would have success in standing, my opponent would most likely try to take me down if i get a few good combos which rock him. And instead of letting it turn into a wrestling match I constantly move in and out.

    Any views of fighting like that in MMA?
     
  19. MonstrositY

    MonstrositY Brown Belt

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    now man it's good. it's great. look at machida and old cc. they hit, but don't like blocking or staying in range to get hit.

    when their opponent goes to punch, they emidiately step away, and tryy to counter... and step out again.

    nothing wrong with it imo
     
  20. Chinaboxer

    Chinaboxer Blue Belt

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    if it's a habit, then "yes" it's bad to land then back off. If it's part of a fight strategy against a specific type of fighter, then "no" it's not necessarily bad to land then back off.
     

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