Is Francis still the lineal champ?

[Fedorgasm]

If you trace lineal champ across orgs back to the beginning then Francis is the current title holder.

But this is the first time when the lineal champ has left the best org (talent wise) and continued to fight.

So does he still qualify as being the lineal champ?

On one hand, he's never lost, but on the other hand, it seems kinda lame if he beats cans for the next 5 years and is still the lineal champ.

 

[Corrado Soprano]

Jon Jones whole heavyweight career is fighting Ngannou’s leftovers - Gane & Stipe. Jon won the heavyweight title after beating Gane who was coming off a loss to Francis. Jon is now fighting Stipe who got decimated by Ngannou 3 years earlier (Stipe hasn’t fought since). Ngannou is rightfully the #1 heavyweight in the world.

 

[Shaolin Alan]

Yes
/end

 

[TheTickG]

 

[RockyLockridge]

I believe it is currently Oleksandr Usyk holding the lineal UFC HW title.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Francis might not even be the lineal champ depending on the full lineage. Many HW champs have been stripped

 

[TITS]

Why are people so obsessed with "lineal champ" lately, especially when it comes to HW? (Since I never see it mentioned here in other weight classes, unless it's a champion no one likes). Ngannou is not in the UFC anymore, and if he manages to lose to that giant can in PFL, what would that make Renan?

 

[orca]

Jon Jones whole heavyweight career is fighting Ngannou’s leftovers - Gane & Stipe. Jon won the heavyweight title after beating Gane who was coming off a loss to Francis. Jon is now fighting Stipe who got decimated by Ngannou 3 years earlier (Stipe hasn’t fought since). Ngannou is rightfully the #1 heavyweight in the world.

bro nganou went life and death with gane
and gane actually taking nganou down
also stipe mauled nganou

jones made nganou look really less skilled

 

[dipstickjimmy]

If you trace lineal champ across orgs back to the beginning then Francis is the current title holder.

But this is the first time when the lineal champ has left the best org (talent wise) and continued to fight.

So does he still qualify as being the lineal champ?

On one hand, he's never lost, but on the other hand, it seems kinda lame if he beats cans for the next 5 years and is still the lineal champ.

He is still the Lineal champion yes. But that doesn't mean he is the #1 HW in the world. Francis is an interesting case being that he will have had 2 years 9 months between MMA fights. Assuming he beats Ferreira, who is ranked #20 by Tapology and 10 by Sherdog and Fight Matrix, that is a legit win but then who does he fight?

You need to be competing against the best in the world to be considered #1 IMO but the rankings are so all over the map. Matrix has Nemkov at #7 in their HW rankings with one HW fight but Jon Jones isn't ranked at all. Neither is Francis? JDS is ranked at #22 for some reason??? He is 5-2 since 2019 with his only 2 wins coming in Bare Knuckle MMA against Werdum and Alan Belcher.

 

[VinceArch]

bro nganou went life and death with gane
and gane actually taking nganou down
also stipe mauled nganou

jones made nganou look really less skilled

Winning 49-46 isn't life and death.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Why are people so obsessed with "lineal champ" lately, especially when it comes to HW?

Just another way to glaze Franci$

 

[TITS]

Just another way to glaze Franci$

I think it's more to shit on Jones.

 

[loisestrad]

"Lineal champ", lol.

There's no lineal champ, unless you establish a strict set of rules to determine a "lineal champ", which hasn't been established.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Francis might not even be the lineal champ depending on the full lineage. Many HW champs have been stripped

Forgive the copy/paste formatting mess, but this is the lineal champ history.

There are other paths, like if you count Harold Howard's "victory" over Royce instead of Sakuraba's, but they all lead to Ngannou being the current champ.


|11/12/1993|UFC 1|Royce Gracie|Gerard Gordeau|1|Submission (rear-naked choke)|10|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Kazushi Sakuraba|Royce Gracie|1|TKO (corner stoppage)|0|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Igor Vovchanchyn|Kazushi Sakuraba|1|TKO (corner stoppage)|0|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Mark Coleman|Igor Vovchanchyn|1|TKO (submission to knees)|1|
|9/24/2001|PRIDE 16|Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira|Mark Coleman|1|Submission (triangle armbar)|6|
|3/16/2003|PRIDE 25|Fedor Emelianenko|Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira|1|Decision (unanimous)|19|
|6/26/2010|Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Werdum|Fabrício Werdum|Fedor Emelianenko|1|Submission (triangle armbar)|0|
|6/18/2011|Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum|Alistair Overeem|Fabrício Werdum|1|Decision (unanimous)|1|
|2/2/2013|UFC 156|Antônio Silva|Alistair Overeem|1|KO (punches)|0|
|5/25/2013|UFC 160|Cain Velasquez|Antônio Silva|1|TKO (punches)|1|
|6/13/2015|UFC 188|Fabrício Werdum|Cain Velasquez|2|Submission (guillotine choke)|0|
|5/14/2016|UFC 198|Stipe Miocic|Fabrício Werdum|1|KO (punch)|3|
|7/7/2018|UFC 226|Daniel Cormier|Stipe Miocic|1|KO (punches)|1|
|8/17/2019|UFC 241|Stipe Miocic|Daniel Cormier|2|TKO (punches)|1|
|3/27/2021|UFC 260|Francis Ngannou|Stipe Miocic|1|KO (punch)|1+|

 

[AmericanMMA]

You’re talking about the Saku belt

 

[Poirierfan]

350% yes.

 

[filthybliss]

bro nganou went life and death with gane
and gane actually taking nganou down
also stipe mauled nganou

jones made nganou look really less skilled

It is almost like styles make fights. Jones lost to Reyes whereas Ryan Spann KOed Reyes in a round. You wanna argue that Spann is more skilled than Jones now?

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I think it's more to shit on Jones.

That too

 

[TITS]

"Lineal champ", lol.

There's no lineal champ, unless you establish a strict set of rules to determine a "lineal champ", which hasn't been established.

It's fucking absurd. Look at this mess, according to this Bigfoot Silva (another giant can) was the "lineal champ":

Forgive the copy/paste formatting mess, but this is the lineal champ history.

There are other paths, like if you count Harold Howard's "victory" over Royce instead of Sakuraba's, but they all lead to Ngannou being the current champ.


|11/12/1993|UFC 1|Royce Gracie|Gerard Gordeau|1|Submission (rear-naked choke)|10|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Kazushi Sakuraba|Royce Gracie|1|TKO (corner stoppage)|0|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Igor Vovchanchyn|Kazushi Sakuraba|1|TKO (corner stoppage)|0|
|5/1/2000|Pride Grand Prix 2000 Finals|Mark Coleman|Igor Vovchanchyn|1|TKO (submission to knees)|1|
|9/24/2001|PRIDE 16|Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira|Mark Coleman|1|Submission (triangle armbar)|6|
|3/16/2003|PRIDE 25|Fedor Emelianenko|Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira|1|Decision (unanimous)|19|
|6/26/2010|Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Werdum|Fabrício Werdum|Fedor Emelianenko|1|Submission (triangle armbar)|0|
|6/18/2011|Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum|Alistair Overeem|Fabrício Werdum|1|Decision (unanimous)|1|
|2/2/2013|UFC 156|Antônio Silva|Alistair Overeem|1|KO (punches)|0|
|5/25/2013|UFC 160|Cain Velasquez|Antônio Silva|1|TKO (punches)|1|
|6/13/2015|UFC 188|Fabrício Werdum|Cain Velasquez|2|Submission (guillotine choke)|0|
|5/14/2016|UFC 198|Stipe Miocic|Fabrício Werdum|1|KO (punch)|3|
|7/7/2018|UFC 226|Daniel Cormier|Stipe Miocic|1|KO (punches)|1|
|8/17/2019|UFC 241|Stipe Miocic|Daniel Cormier|2|TKO (punches)|1|
|3/27/2021|UFC 260|Francis Ngannou|Stipe Miocic|1|KO (punch)|1+|

Lineal Champ is as much bullshit as #1 P4P. Both are complete nonsense in the MMA world, and it's only being brought up daily on this forum because of Jon.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Lineal Champ is as much bullshit as #1 P4P. Both are complete nonsense in the MMA world, and it's only being brought up daily on this forum because of Jon.

Well yeah. When the UFC fails to answer the question of who's the best fighter, the fans are left to answer that question ourselves.

Right now we have 3 guys that have a legit claim of being the best HW in the world.

Well.... Maybe I should say 2 guys with a legit claim and one guy with an illegitimate one.