Is Francis leaving as champ a pivotal moment in mma/ufc?

[Bearknuckle]

Is this the beginning of mma/ufc turning into boxing and other combat sports?

With francis leaving as ufc champ and signing elsewhere for what seems to be a better deal. Is this a pivotal time in mma, where the fighters are big enough and are the main attraction instead of UFC?

with social media stars like jake paul, and popular fighters like nate diaz going away from UFC and putting together their own fights, and fans having access to watch them on many avenues, it could be the beginning of a movement where the fighters are now the attraction like in boxing.

nobody says, hey bro u gonna watch WBC tonight?? They say hey r u gonna watch canelo vs. GGG. With what francis is doing, it could open some of the ufc stars up to putting together their own fights and possibly making more money for themselves than in the UFC. If islam suddenly left to go fight for eagle fc, that would probably sell huge numbers.

the only problem i see is there is a lack of stars outside the UFC. But slowly if top stars like conor, nate, francis start just making fights, it could really put the ufc and its top fighters on notice.

do u guys want fighters to self promote and make themselves bigger than the organization?

 

[IronGolem007]

I used to be mad at Francis over this ... now (I have to admit) I support him.

 

[Rationality]

You probably think I hate Francis based on the Jones/Ngannou thread, but I truly hope Francis helps to further break Dana's almost-monopoly on MMA. If Francis is doing this on principle that takes courage and that's to be admired, but the jury is still out on whether this has an effect on the UFC.

 

[TheTickG]

I don't think it is. This happened in the UFC a few times in the past.

More likely, I see PFL going bankrupt in a few years.

 

[JustOnce]

No.

1) Francis isn't a mainstream guy. His best PPV did 300k. And it was a compelling fight with a great opponent with UFC hw title on the line.

2) Francis doesn't have hardcore following either. He's not one fifth as loved nor respected like Fedor was for example, or guys from PRIDE.

3) Francis is planning to box. He can't box. He will get smashed bad and will make him lose his appeal to the masses.

4)Gone are the days of PRIDE/Strikeforce. The talent level in PFL is laughable at best, and HW is really unfortunate. There is no compelling match ups left. For example, Canelo apparently only did 200k against Ryder. Ryder is no elite, but compared to available opponents for Ngannou, he's Jon Jones and GSP combined. And Ngannou is no Canelo. I'd be shocked if his PPV does over 100k unless they have Jake Paul in it who is a strong draw.

5) Unlike WBC or whatever in boxing, in MMA, the brand name plays for UFC.

6) Ngannou is allegedly 36 and he's not really necessarily a skilled heavyweight either. I'm more inclined to believe we've seen the best from him. Yes, it's heavyweight, but still he's set to fight at 37 yo next year, and he will turn 38 next year too.

7) Ngannou signed for only 2 or 3 fights. I don't think this contract will work out well for him, because I see him getting absolutely annihilated in boxing if he fights someone decent. With no UFC foootage to promote him too, with very likely boxing destruction, I don't believe his PFL venture will be a succesful one for PFL.

 

[wolffanghameha]

If PFL gets huge in Africa and it ends up being a major market, then it's pivotal yeh. Otherwise it's hard to see what knock-on effects this could have.
But I don't see it going the way you envisioned in the opening post, no. I just don't think many fighters will be willing to sit out for that long during their athletic prime to escape the UFC contract. Francis had a knee injury anyway, is probably more principled than most people, he's a heavyweight so his advanced age doesn't matter as much, plus it's easier to set yourself apart as a HW than in the lighter divisions where it's much harder to clean out the division.

 

[JustOnce]

The only way I see this working out for PFL is if just like some rumors on here, if they buy out Bellator and absorb talents from there.

PFL talent pool is laughable at best, especially at HW. Bellator is pretty thin too, but they have some amazing fighters there. PFL is just lol from top to bottom, I mean you can see this from their winners of their tournaments.

I don't really see Ngannou deal working out for them. I think Ngannou is absolutely going to get battered in boxing unless they match him up with some human corpse, and Ngannou isn't really a big draw nor is he a hardcore favourite.

But if and only if, PFL can absorb Bellator AND put Ngannou on top of their organization, and possibly persuade Ngannou from fighting non-cans in boxing, then I think it's going to really set the floor for PFL to grow into a very legitimate fighting organization with arguably best HW in the world leading it.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i don't know why people think this has set some kind of precedent. this has happened before in UFC. BJ Penn did it in 2004. learn your history folks.

 

[John12]

I guess fighters could begin to negotiate better contracts, other UFC champs or top contenders who are not happy with their contract could jump ship if they get better offers from other orgs, the UFC will have to pay better or risk losing their champs to the competition

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

I guess fighters could begin to negotiate better contracts, other UFC champs or top contenders who are not happy with their contract could jump ship if they get better offers from other orgs, the UFC will have to pay better or risk losing their champs to the competition

i don't know, i'd think the UFC would just double down on their negotiating process and make sure nobody else leaves through a combination of stricter contract stipulations and brutal matchmaking tactics. UFC is a big corporation now. those types tend to double down on their draconian style of business than actually change for the better.

 

[MMA]

No I don't think it's going to be a pivotal moment

I think it's gonna be completely forgotten about and maybe show up on a few "who's the biggest waste of talent" type threads -- assuming people still post threads in a few years

 

[Doughie99]

No.

1) Francis isn't a mainstream guy. His best PPV did 300k. And it was a compelling fight with a great opponent with UFC hw title on the line.

2) Francis doesn't have hardcore following either. He's not one fifth as loved nor respected like Fedor was for example, or guys from PRIDE.

3) Francis is planning to box. He can't box. He will get smashed bad and will make him lose his appeal to the masses.

4)Gone are the days of PRIDE/Strikeforce. The talent level in PFL is laughable at best, and HW is really unfortunate. There is no compelling match ups left. For example, Canelo apparently only did 200k against Ryder. Ryder is no elite, but compared to available opponents for Ngannou, he's Jon Jones and GSP combined. And Ngannou is no Canelo. I'd be shocked if his PPV does over 100k unless they have Jake Paul in it who is a strong draw.

5) Unlike WBC or whatever in boxing, in MMA, the brand name plays for UFC.

6) Ngannou is allegedly 36 and he's not really necessarily a skilled heavyweight either. I'm more inclined to believe we've seen the best from him. Yes, it's heavyweight, but still he's set to fight at 37 yo next year, and he will turn 38 next year too.

7) Ngannou signed for only 2 or 3 fights. I don't think this contract will work out well for him, because I see him getting absolutely annihilated in boxing if he fights someone decent. With no UFC foootage to promote him too, with very likely boxing destruction, I don't believe his PFL venture will be a succesful one for PFL.

basically.....this.

 

[World eater]

I’m inclined to say no, as the UFC, mainly due to Jones returning, is largely unfazed by Ngannou leaving. However, I sure hope it is the beginning and that down the line more fighters will stand up for themselves. Ultimately, I hope the UFC just starts paying the bottom guys better so that this becomes a non issue.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think you'd need Conor to try it for it to make much of a dent and I think the fact that even he hasn't tried it says a lot about how realistic it is.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

it's absolutely pivotal, for francis. yairs ago, Randy Couture did the similar thing. Did it pan out the way he was hoping? No. He was still under UFC contract. But it was a pivotal moment for sure. Francis secured the money. Time will tell if PFL collapses, truthfully no one knows. It's a big moment for sure.

 

[lagofala]

I actually like having just one or two big players in an individual sport like MMA because then the World champ actually means much more.

The gripe is more of UFC's dilution of cards, fighter pay and general complacency in terms of the on air product in recent years.

 

[John12]

i don't know, i'd think the UFC would just double down on their negotiating process and make sure nobody else leaves through a combination of stricter contract stipulations and brutal matchmaking tactics. UFC is a big corporation now. those types tend to double down on their draconian style of business than actually change for the better.

Maybe but that would be risky considering they are dealing with antitrust lawsuit right? But they will try to screw the fighters with stricter contracts if they see an opening for sure, it could backfire on them tho. Hopefully other fighters who are not happy with their contracts are able to have fair negotiations

 

[MMA]

I’m inclined to say no, as the UFC, mainly due to Jones returning, is largely unfazed by Ngannou leaving. However, I sure hope it is the beginning and that down the line more fighters will stand up for themselves. Ultimately, I hope the UFC just starts paying the bottom guys better so that this becomes a non issue.

I just can't see any logic in this take at all.

You hope more fighters leave the UFC?

and you hope that because you think a decreased market share for the UFC would lead to the UFC paying the "bottom guys better."




Dude I'm sorry but that's so dumb. For the first part, obviously guys leaving the UFC or signing elsewhere makes our fan experience worse.. that one's obvious

Maybe less obvious is how there no way the UFC would react to the situation you describe by paying off low level talent. If there was a mass exodus of fighters from the UFC, and significant enough competition to cause a net decrease in market share and/or revenue, the UFC would be far more likely to react by just CUTTING the low level guys, not paying them more.

It's like you're trying to be altruistic to fighters -- who the UFC pays the best by far -- by hoping for what would amount to serious damage to the sport and our enjoyment of it. It's not altruistic though it's masochistic and naive



When the sport stops growing and gets established enough in human culture to ensure it's continued longevity and success, fine, have a true competitor. But as things are now, anything that hurts the UFC is bad for everyone involved in the sport, from the fans to the fighters to the myriad other things that depend on it. It would even be bad for other orgs. The UFC simply IS mixed martial arts right now.

 

[TCE]

I guess fighters could begin to negotiate better contracts, other UFC champs or top contenders who are not happy with their contract could jump ship if they get better offers from other orgs, the UFC will have to pay better or risk losing their champs to the competition

i don't know, i'd think the UFC would just double down on their negotiating process and make sure nobody else leaves through a combination of stricter contract stipulations and brutal matchmaking tactics. UFC is a big corporation now. those types tend to double down on their draconian style of business than actually change for the better.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Maybe but that would be risky considering they are dealing with antitrust lawsuit right? But they will try to screw the fighters with stricter contracts if they see an opening for sure, it could backfire on them tho. Hopefully other fighters who are not happy with their contracts are able to have fair negotiations

the antitrust is only for contracts, they'll still use ther matchmaking to try and destroy your career, and depending on the landscape of the weight class and your style of fighting, it's not that hard to give a guy 3 really terrible matchups that either stink up the joint or make you look weak.