Is Dricus the biggest overachiever of all time?

Not trying to hate on the man

But God damn

His style and technique is so ugly

Truthfully, I have no idea how he's winning fights at this level, but he does it.. lol

Some Forrest griffin shit
No, that title will always belong to Bisping 😂

MW has been weak for a while now...

It got taken over by kickboxers who barely know any BBJ or wrestling, and now we have a champ who is decent all-around.

Honestly, the progression makes sense.

I don't expect any of these guys to be at the top very long. The division will course correct as others have, in time.
 
Nope. Not a fan of the term at all. If you achieved it, your potential/talent/skill is just higher than people were able to distinguish. That's on the analyst, not the fighter.

Also, ugly doesn't matter if it is effective.
 
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I think it depends on what we mean by overachieve. I think DDP's skillset is a bit more diverse than I initially thought, but I think he does still rely heavily on athleticism, conditioning, grit and smart game-planning. I think his skillset is more diverse than Sean's, even though I thought you could argue Sean won.

You don't necessarily need a diverse skillset to be great (in the higher weight divisions). Dan Henderson, especially by the time he got to the UFC, had an extremely limited skillset for a MW. He's an all-time great.

Don't conflate skillset with how good a fighter is. Look at how effective Dan and Sean were/are with relatively limited skillsets (by skillset I mean how many martial arts techniques you know, irrespective of how effectively you apply them). Compare their skillset and success with a guy like Martin Kampmann:
  • a BJJ blackbelt with almost as many submission wins as knockouts;
  • could grapple nearly neck-and-neck with Jake Shields;
  • great, complete kickboxing game;
but could never get to a championship fight for a variety of reasons (depth at WW, tactical errors, durability later in career, etc.).

I also think there's a distinction between "sloppy" and limited skillset. Outside of striking, Izzy is limited--not sloppy, IMO. Condit, especially for his time, had a great skillset for a WW--but his striking was a little sloppy.

DDP is a little more skilled than I thought, but I think he can look a little sloppy in there. That may improve overtime or it could be baked into the cake.
 
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Nope. Not a fan of the term at all. If you achieved it, your potential/talent/skill is just higher than people were able to distinguish. That's on the analysist, not the fighter.

Also, ugly doesn't matter if it is effective.
Indeed. That's the thing. It's not about looking pretty.

But still, I feel like he does everything wrong and still wins.. lol

I guess it just be like that sometimes
 
I think it depends on what we mean by overachieve. I think DDP's skillset is a bit more diverse than I initially thought, but I think he does still rely heavily on athleticism, conditioning, grit and smart game-planning.

I think his skillset is more diverse than Sean's, even though I thought you could argue Sean won.

You don't necessarily need a diverse skillset to be great (in the higher weight divisions). Dan Henderson, especially by the time he got to the UFC, had an extremely limited skillset for a MW. He's an all-time great.

Don't conflate skillset with how good a fighter is. Look at how effective Dan and Sean were/are with relatively limited skillsets (e.g., how many martial arts techniques you know, irrespective of how effectively you apply them).

Compare their skillset and success with a guy like Martin Kampmann:
  • a BJJ blackbelt with almost as many submission wins as knockouts;
  • could grapple nearly neck-and-neck with Jake Shields;
  • great, complete kickboxing game;
but could never get to a championship fight for a variety of reasons (depth at WW, tactical errors, durability later in career, etc.).

I also think there's a distinction between "sloppy" and limited skillset. Outside of striking, Izzy is limited--not sloppy, IMO. Condit, especially for his time, had a great skillset for a WW--but his striking was a little sloppy.

DDP is a little more skilled than I thought, but I think he can look a little sloppy in there. That may improve overtime or it could be baked into the cake.
Interesting, nuanced thoughts.

Admittedly, I've done far from dissecting the full ins and outs of his game. I know he makes it work, ultimately that's all that matters.

Although it still does bother me on a personal level that this level of success can be attained with such pedestrian technique, but in the grand scheme, my own bias in that sense doesn't really matter.

I suppose there's no shortage of ugly styles that managed to triumph against all odds in combat sports history.
 
MW has been weak for a while now...

It got taken over by kickboxers who barely know any BBJ or wrestling, and now we have a champ who is decent all-around.

Strikers have always done well at MW (Anderson Silva, Israel Adesanya, Whittaker, etc.) and it's not because there weren't top grapplers at MW like Yoel Romero, Ronaldo Souza, Chael Sonnen, and so on who could never touch the belt. The grappler who did best at MW was Chris Weidman and his title wins were against past their prime fighters.

MW is less weak a division than HW, LHW and even WW to be honest.
 
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Although it still does bother me on a personal level that this level of success can be attained with such pedestrian technique, but in the grand scheme, my own bias in that sense doesn't really matter I suppose.
I know what you mean, brother. I think it reflects the schism between purists and just bleed. MMA will always be both, and very few guys can blend the two like Max, Charles, BJ, Nick, etc.

That said, I might be hard pressed to find 15 guys at MW, all time, with a deeper skillset than DDP. I'm not interested at all in how they'd match-up head-to-head, just 15 guys with a deeper skillset than DDP (e.g., by skillset I mean how many martial arts techniques you know, irrespective of how effectively you apply them).

I may start a thread on it!
 
I know what you mean, brother. I think it reflects the schism between purists and just bleed. MMA will always be both, and very few guys can blend the two like Max, Charles, BJ, Nick, etc.

That said, I might be hard pressed to find 15 guys at MW, all time, with a deeper skillset than DDP. I'm not interested at all in how they'd match-up head-to-head, just 15 guys with a deeper skillset than DDP (e.g., by skillset I mean how many martial arts techniques you know, irrespective of how effectively you apply them).

I may start a thread on it!
Indeed

Mirrored in boxing as well. The technician and the warrior.

I suppose there's also ways to use a style that seems sloppy on the surface in a tactical, strategic way as well. All this stuff is super layered, lol.

You should, I'd love to read it.
 
DDP does have an ugly style.

His striking at first glance seems extremely sloppy. His chin sometimes is right up there and he's always moving in straight line. I think it's not an exageration to say that his striking isn't really (or at least doesnt seem to be) very good.

But then I started rewatching his fights and dude obviously knows what he's doing. Like when he's blitzing in with his hands down he's doing it for a reason. He's not just rushing in stupidly without a purpose.

Many people (including me) always says that he's like a tank and I think the description is so accurate. He isn't tall but he's very massive. Very big for the division and he's slower than others. He doesnt throw fast but he's so big and has the power needed. His style is very very weird tbh (so is Strickland style but they fight so differently).

But one thing, and I think that's his biggest asset above everything, that he truly has is confidence. And that's why many people (including me) didn't like him the first time. He come across as an arrogant pos. But when you really take the time to listen to what he says, he's solid IMO. That's just a guy that truly believe in himself.

I'll never countout Izzy because the dude is obviously one of the best and his striking is something else but I got DDP here. I don't think Izzy has the power to keep him at bay. I wouldn't be shocked if Izzy win by KO but I would be shocked if Izzy win an UD.

Looking forward to it but man I'm still disappointed in Izzy... why did he had to bring races into this. That was so not necessary.
 
DDP is a throwback to like 2008 as far as technique goes

Dude hits like a truck and won a belt tho so I won't hate too much lol
 
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DDP brings cardio, aggressiveness, power, and pressure with some other intangibles. To dissect his game you don't need to qualify his skills, but the way he uses them. His approach throws guys off guard who are used to more traditional and strategic hesitancy. It's nice to see guys who get in there, too many fighters are passive and only want to sit back and counter.
 
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