Is Charles oliveira really that good or is Tony really that washed?

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Both. Oliveira is a phenomenal fighter who reached a different level moving up to 155. His striking is miles better than it was in the past, and his ground game is as elite as elite gets. He's a problem for everyone in the division.

At the same time, Tony has been through years of crazy wars and a serious knee injury behind him. I also think his confidence took a serious hit after his fight with Gaethje. His best years are behind him, but he will always be a legend in my eyes.
 
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He's totally gone and it's painful to see as a huge fan of Ferguson. Forget getting rag-dolled...what was his game plan? He clearly had no defense if Oliveira opted to strike him. He simply cannot force the pace of a fight anymore.
 
A bit of both in my opinion, I think people(myself included to a degree) wanted to see if Tony could bounce back from the beating he took from Gaethje and see if he can get 1 LAST shot at the Title, but in reality, his career went down the shitter the moment Gaethje snapped his head back with a brain rattling Jab.

ON the other hand, Charles is also REALLTY fucking good. 1 thing that can't be disputed is that Tony was not the same fighter, but Oliveria was always going to be better on the ground. The one thing I didn't see was him wrestling him and slamming him in the first round, but Do Bronx would have always had the better BJJ of the two even if Tony hadn't fought Gaethje.
 
Oliveira tapped out to ground and pound of felder. Never forget that
 
Rektkid said:
He's totally gone and it's painful to see as a huge fan of Ferguson. Forget getting rag-dolled...what was his game plan? He clearly had no defense if Oliveira opted to strike him. He simply cannot force the pace of a fight anymore.
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Not having eddie in his corner against a bjj guy hurt him. I wonder why eddie wasn't there. I hope it was because he couldn't make it and it not being a sound decision to not have him there and go with someone else.
 
I think Oliveira is peaking after learning discipline and not trying to cut so much damned weight to fight at FW. He looked massive in there against Tony and was literally rag-dolling him in the wrestling. He's always been talented.

I do think Tony looks washed after the Gaethje fight though. He took a ton of damage in that fight. I think he'd be hard pressed to beat anyone in the top 10 much less the top 5 right now. Not to say he can't turn it around but both age AND mileage may have caught up with him.
 
A bit of both. Does anyone here think that from 2011-2018 Oliveira would have beat Tony?
 
egk said:
I think Oliveira is peaking after learning discipline and not trying to cut so much damned weight to fight at FW. He looked massive in there against Tony and was literally rag-dolling him in the wrestling. He's always been talented.

I do think Tony looks washed after the Gaethje fight though. He took a ton of damage in that fight. I think he'd be hard pressed to beat anyone in the top 10 much less the top 5 right now. Not to say he can't turn it around but both age AND mileage may have caught up with him.
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Guy was moving like Chuck Liddell out there. Guy used to be unpredictable and dynamic with very high activity levels on the feet and the ground, he looked like he was moving in mud yesterday.
 
tony isn't washed, he just isn't the #1 LW like people have been saying. If he had fought Gaethje and Oliveria, say in 2016, do you really think it would have been different.
 
Do bronx has a good shot against Poirier/Conor/Gaethje but decent chances to lose as well
 
Charles has a weak facial structure and got dropped by David Teymur right in the middle of his current run which everyone seems to have forgotten for some reason.
 
I think it is more Do Bronx being good than anything else. Charles Olivera is a submission master and has the most submissions in the UFC. Tony is a good grappler but was never at that level in terms of grappling. Kevin Lee was able to control him on the ground for instance. On top of that his ground game was most based around recklessness. Rolling out of things, spamming triangle chokes. His hesitation on the ground I believe had to do with the fact that he was facing a BJJ wizard who could easily submit him if he tried a reckless escape. On the feet it was clear that Ferguson wasn't approaching with as much pressure as usual because Gaethje proved that a good counterstriking boxing game was all that was needed to beat Ferguson. Pettis almost finished him with counterstriking but got reckless chasing the finish. What we are seeing is the holes in Tony's game, which have always existed being brought to light. At first, people did not know how to train to fight Tony. But Gaethje revealed all his flaws and now all fighters know the play book to use.
 
We'll have to see how Tony looks in his next fight, but it's very possibly he's done. Taking a beating like he took against Gaethje especially at Tony's age can end a guys career. People were already speculating before the fight that Tony might not ever be close to the same.

Oliveria also had a smart game plan of controlling Tony on the ground and not take risks (he did go for an armbar but at the end of the round which minimizes the risk) or wear himself out.
 
Both, but mostly Oliveira is a brilliant fighter.

I love Tony, but he's always had holes in his game and Charles is really good at exposing most of those deficiencies. Oliviera is showing poise and control that he definitely didn't a decade ago.

Tony is 37, so it deserves being mentioned, but he got ran over by a more polished striker and superior grappler.
 
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