Is catch wrestling dead? [QUINTET spoiler inside]

[nefti]

There is a ton of top notch folkstyle stuff on YouTube. Top catch guys are long dead.

It seems to me “too catch guys” are charging an arm and a leg and pricing the style into a slow death. Also, YouTube doesn’t count, you need numerous qualified instructors who are willing and able to teach.

 

[yetanother]

It seems to me “too catch guys” are charging an arm and a leg and pricing the style into a slow death. Also, YouTube doesn’t count, you need numerous qualified instructors who are willing and able to teach.

Isn't folkstyle wiedly taught in the us? A ton of kids train and compete in it.

 

[nefti]

Isn't folkstyle wiedly taught in the us? A ton of kids train and compete in it.

folkstyle, while being a great art that I respect. Isn't catch.
I would rather folkstyle guys call folkstyle + subs something like combat folkstyle or submssions folkstyle. I mean they have no connection to people like funaki or billy robinson.

 

[thugpoet]

folkstyle, while being a great art that I respect. Isn't catch.
I would rather folkstyle guys call folkstyle + subs something like combat folkstyle or submssions folkstyle. I mean they have no connection to people like funaki or billy robinson.

Why does it matter what it's called?

 

[yetanother]

Why does it matter what it's called?

There is a significant difference between catch wrestling as a bygon art used in the old day to win matches, catch "inspired" techniques used to fight in mma or bjj or just techniques that are optimal to fight in a catch wrestling rule set regardless if they come from folkstyle/freestyle or bjj.

 

[thugpoet]

There is a significant difference between catch wrestling as a bygon art used in the old day to win matches, catch "inspired" techniques used to fight in mma or bjj or just techniques that are optimal to fight in a catch wrestling rule set regardless if they come from folkstyle/freestyle or bjj.

Not really.

Bjj from 30 years ago looks completely different from bjj today but it's still considered a bjj.

Idk why catch has this stigma. " it's not real catch" "it's just wrestling with subs!" Ok then wth is catch to begin with if not wrestling with subs!!

It's all grappling what makes an art stand out is the rules/restrictions It places on its fighters.

If your gym practices catch rules then it's a catch gym. If your coaches suck you will suck. That applies to any sport across the board.

 

[Xuh]

I would rather folkstyle guys call folkstyle + subs something like combat folkstyle or submssions folkstyle. I mean they have no connection to people like funaki or billy robinson.

But 'murican folkstyle literally started out as 'catch with subs removed' (before Billy Robinson or Funaki were even born - not sure why they have to have the last word on anything). If subs were added back in, well... ?

 

[nefti]

But 'murican folkstyle literally started out as 'catch with subs removed' (before Billy Robinson or Funaki were even born - not sure why they have to have the last word on anything). If subs were added back in, well... ?

And this is one of the dilemmas of catch. Any tom dick and harry can call himself a catch expert. No quality control at all.
Before you go out screaming "there are bads/fakes everywhere" yes, but they called called out alot in bjj and other grappling styles. At least in Luta Libre you can get confirmation on if the person trained, under who, and how long.

 

[thugpoet]

And this is one of the dilemmas of catch. Any tom dick and harry can call himself a catch expert. No quality control at all.
Before you go out screaming "there are bads/fakes everywhere" yes, but they called called out alot in bjj and other grappling styles. At least in Luta Libre you can get confirmation on if the person trained, under who, and how long.

If a dude is good it doesn't matter who he trained under. It's not brain surgery

 

[nefti]

If a dude is good it doesn't matter who he trained under. It's not brain surgery

Thats a generic answer. How does a person who has never trained a day in their lives know if someone is good?
You may then throw out another generic answer:
They should do their own research.

Other than googling the instructors name, what other research can the prespectkve student do if the instructor has no infomation on his training background?

Just being able to ask someone:
Who did you get your qualifications from?
How long did you train with your instructor?

Forces transparency.

 

[thugpoet]

Thats a generic answer. How does a person who has never trained a day in their lives know if someone is good?
You may then throw out another generic answer:
They should do their own research.

Other than googling the instructors name, what other research can the prespectkve student do if the instructor has no infomation on his training background?

Just being able to ask someone:
Who did you get your qualifications from?
How long did you train with your instructor?

Forces transparency.

I don't care about that stuff I care about people been able to show me things that I don't know if you're attacking people then that's good enough for me.

 

[nefti]

I don't care about that stuff I care about people been able to show me things that I don't know if you're attacking people then that's good enough for me.

that's nice for you. How does a new student know who is a good or bad teacher? Or even a legit teacher?

 

[thugpoet]

that's nice for you. How does a new student know who is a good or bad teacher? Or even a legit teacher?

Legit is relative to your goals. there are very few coaches you can take you from a beginner to world class. if the guy you're working with help she to go accomplish your goals it doesn't matter what his credentials are. There's no real way to know if a coach is good obviously if he has a black belt or whatever then that's different button catch there is no black belt so is all based on word of mouth and training ability or titles.

 

[yetanother]

titles.

 

[Warwick7]

It’s a shame ken doesn’t pass knowledge on now
He is purest American catch guy ever

Ken is great but I have never seen him compete in Catch Wrestling like I have Josh.

folkstyle, while being a great art that I respect. Isn't catch.
I would rather folkstyle guys call folkstyle + subs something like combat folkstyle or submssions folkstyle. I mean they have no connection to people like funaki or billy robinson.

That is why I like the term Submission or Submission Wrestling. Especially if you float between pins and no pins. If you train Catch Wrestling Pin and Submission and you beat top No gi guys left and right I dont think anyone will care about your lineage. I haven't seen Curran in No Gi though. I think Leduc and Johnny Buck are doing well in no gi but I i have been following as closely.

 

[Highway99]

I've heard Billy Robinson himself say that folkstyle is catch with the submissions taken out.

 

[nefti]

Ken is great but I have never seen him compete in Catch Wrestling like I have Josh.

In all fairness to ken, were there any catch comps when he was young enough to compete?

That is why I like the term Submission or Submission Wrestling. Especially if you float between pins and no pins. If you train Catch Wrestling Pin and Submission and you beat top No gi guys left and right I dont think anyone will care about your lineage. I haven't seen Curran in No Gi though. I think Leduc and Johnny Buck are doing well in no gi but I i have been following as closely.

Cant argue with this logic.

 

[migeru29]

Belfort represents steroids and striking not BJJ.

Did BJJ died when two Judokas (lombard and akiyama) dominated Shield and completely negate his jitz. ?

 

[lechien]

I don't care about that stuff I care about people been able to show me things that I don't know if you're attacking people then that's good enough for me.

You would care.

I know a few guys that magically landed in a foreign country and self promoted to black belts.

That gotta sucks for the students that are actually paying them money.

 

[lechien]

And this is one of the dilemmas of catch. Any tom dick and harry can call himself a catch expert. No quality control at all.
Before you go out screaming "there are bads/fakes everywhere" yes, but they called called out alot in bjj and other grappling styles. At least in Luta Libre you can get confirmation on if the person trained, under who, and how long.

Lot of guys that failed at bjj, try to rebrand themself as catch wrestler .
I would say that they are trying to recreate a style due to the fact that they have no direct lineage to anyone.
Of course, I am talking about my country.