Is caloric deficit really all you need?

[Torak]

Recently, Ive been reading and hearing people talk just about caloric deficit when you want to lose fat/cut. All this IIFYM "if it fits your macros" and that you only need to be in caloric deficit to burn fat. They say sugar plays no role in it, carb timing doesnt either, cardio doesnt either (either fasted, or normal, or slow cardio or HIIT). The ONLY thing that matters is calories in vs. calories out.

BUT why there are so MANY articles on qualified websites, so MANY videos over the internet and so MANY PROFESSIONAL athletes STILL talking about all the little things like:
-NO SUGAR/sugary foods, it causes insuline spike, can make you fat
-CYCLING the carbs, depending on how much activity you do each day, some dont even eat carbs before bed
-CARDIO timing and most importantly cardio type - many athletes nowadays prefer HIIT over long distance endurance cardios, because they say HIIT burns more fat and leaves your body in that burning stae for much longer than regular cardio


So where is the truth? Its all about calories in vs calories out OR is it ALSO about the things mentioned?

 

[lts5025]

Because they all have something to sell you.

Hard to sell books when the answer to losing weight is "quit eating so much."

 

[edco76]

The two simplest things to do in this life is lose weight and become wealthy.

To lose weight, burn more calories than you eat. To get rich, spend less than you earn.

 

[Torak]

Because they all have something to sell you.

Hard to sell books when the answer to losing weight is "quit eating so much."

Yeah , but I didnt buy any book. All of that has been free advice over the internet not related to any product offering.

 

[j123]

For high level athletes, maybe they do have to use certain methods to succeed. But for most of us here, and the general populace, the standard basics of calorie in and out, IIFYM, portion control, is what will do the job for all of us.

When I mean high level athletes, I'm talking about professional athletes like guys in the NFL, NBA, top contender fighters, etc

Keep in mind that IIFYM doesn't mean gorge down on junk food. Lots of guys eat "clean" while prescribing to flexible dieting.

The myth of no carbs before bed has been debunked years ago.

Contest prep bodybuilders do carb cycling, and I understand that they probably do need it, as their sport/hobby involves being as big and shredded as possible, and carb cycling plays a role in that.

You don't need cardio to lose weight btw. It helps by increasing your activity level, and if done routinely bumps your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) up. Basically your maintenance calories based on your activity level.

eg.
Say your TDEE is 3000 calories from just lifting 4 days a week.
You decide to add in 30min cardio in the mornings and lift at night (am / pm sch). Your activity level has now increased, and your TDEE is probably now something around the lines of 3200. If you continue eating 3000 calories daily, while keeping up your new schedule, you will actually lose weight due to the increase, even if you don't realize it.

Bodybuilders rarely do cardio, and stay lean/shredded regularly, its all due to dieting. Like I said, cardio's a good tool to use, but its not required to lose weight.

TLDL;

• Calories in and out is the priority

• Exercise helps increase your activity level, which in turns increases the daily amount of calories you can consume depending on your goals (cut, bulk, maintain)

• You can loose weight with little to no exercise at all, but you would only be eating something around 1800-2400 calories daily (depends on your height, weight, gender, etc) . Adding exercise in would bump that to a more satisfying number like 2800-3000. Age actually isn't too much of a factor, yes your metabolism does decease as you get older, but not by alot (about 100-200 cal of TDEE). Usually as we get older, we have more responsibilities in our lives such as a family, career, house, etc. so by the nature of that, our activity level deceases. I can't be training 6 days a week, with 4 of them twice a day like now while juggling a family, competitive career, etc.

• Your metabolism does everything, anything else is assistance to boost it. Trying to use tricks, methods, etc to out train a bad diet, is like trying to outrun a car at full speed. No one is going to do it, unless you have superhuman genetics. Even then, there could be a variety of factors as well. Maybe they feel full while eating at maintenance, which is why they may seem to never lose/gain weight despite "breaking all the rules" others have come across.

• HIIT may seem to help "fat loss" more than steady state, because the intensity is higher, but the total isn't record breaking. Thats just on the topic of weight control, as for cardiovascular health, a combination of both should be employed, but thats not what this topic is about.

Also:

 

[Torak]

Thanks for answer!

In the picture you posted, there is also meal timing and frequency. But you say it doesnt matter. Maybe just performance-wise?

 

[kjkguy96]

Exactly, look how small those portions are compared to the rest of the pyramid. For average people (simply non elite athletes), the first 3 steps could easily be all they need.

 

[560ti]

So where is the truth? Its all about calories in vs calories out OR is it ALSO about the things mentioned?

Calories in vs Calories out is a huge aspect of it.

In terms of diet nutrition dense food will fill you up quicker while giving your body essential nutrients so there great for trimming weight (lean meats, vegetables, sugar in your diet coming from mostly fruits). It's easier to lower your daily calorie intake when you eat nutrition dense food

For an example i'm in a weight cut right now and for breakfast this morning I had a serving of eggs/chicken, a full grapefruit, 2 servings of spinach, and an avocado (my stomach was full and I felt great yet I didn't each that many calories, maybe 500-600 or so for the biggest meal of the day).

In regards to cardio HIIT is for sure the best (I lost 40 pounds a few years ago doing literally nothing but quarter mile sprints).

 

[Badger67]

Thanks for answer!

In the picture you posted, there is also meal timing and frequency. But you say it doesnt matter. Maybe just performance-wise?

Avoiding simple sugars pre workout can help with decreasing the likelihood of rebound hypoglycemia. Though things like dextrose intraworkout can have an improvement in exercise performance. This is how some carbs can matter for timing.
If you're not on a low carb diet, having too many fats pre workout can slow the digestion of other macro's which may limit exercise capacity, glycogen stores etc.
In general, meal timing pre workout you want to be able to have full gastric emptying as opposed to a bloated stomach/intestines. This is why 60-120 minutes before your workout should be your meal, in general. If you know you can handle more and still achieve, then this becomes moot but most will fall in line here somewhere.

There's also a number of studies out there comparing WF's to PF's and their TEF and how they differ independently of fiber and micro intake in isocaloric states.
http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/5144/5755
John Berardi does a good job with this study and breaks it down. He is probably the best nutritionist out there.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/digesting-whole-vs-processed-foods
If you don't understand TEF, adaptive metabolism, adaptive thermogenesis etc, then nutrition will only become more complicated if you attempt anything that is beyond CICO and exercise.

Things like this are generally for people who want to exceed standard levels of performance that most people are capable of. Human physiology is not a simple #, that is more of a guideline than a rule.

 

[Codger]

Yeah , but I didnt buy any book. All of that has been free advice over the internet not related to any product offering.

Almost everyone is selling something on one level or another and the rest are parroting what they read off those who are. Sites need views and 1000 year old "eat less" facts don't gets visitors.

 

[j123]

Thanks for answer!

In the picture you posted, there is also meal timing and frequency. But you say it doesnt matter. Maybe just performance-wise?

Yes. I don't think I said it didn't matter, but if I did, I meant in terms of losing/gaining weight. I eat 3 times daily, and my post-workout meal is usually around 2-3h post-workout. On the weekends or days I only lift in the mornings, I eat twice a day, and the PWO meal on those days is about 4-5h apart.

imo if someone is training 3 times a day, there might be a bit more emphasis with meal timing, but at the end, thats just partitioning the daily caloric total. The grand total still remains the same, its just split differently throughout the day. eg. 3000 calories over 5 meals vs 3.

 

[Gunny]

Recently, Ive been reading and hearing people talk just about caloric deficit when you want to lose fat/cut. All this IIFYM "if it fits your macros" and that you only need to be in caloric deficit to burn fat. They say sugar plays no role in it, carb timing doesnt either, cardio doesnt either (either fasted, or normal, or slow cardio or HIIT). The ONLY thing that matters is calories in vs. calories out.

BUT why there are so MANY articles on qualified websites, so MANY videos over the internet and so MANY PROFESSIONAL athletes STILL talking about all the little things like:
-NO SUGAR/sugary foods, it causes insuline spike, can make you fat
-CYCLING the carbs, depending on how much activity you do each day, some dont even eat carbs before bed
-CARDIO timing and most importantly cardio type - many athletes nowadays prefer HIIT over long distance endurance cardios, because they say HIIT burns more fat and leaves your body in that burning stae for much longer than regular cardio


So where is the truth? Its all about calories in vs calories out OR is it ALSO about the things mentioned?

I think the truth is that most of those little variables nutrition gurus like to talk about are 85% less important than they lead you to believe (i.e. you could get good results disregarding all of it) Problem is, there are no careers to be made if all you tell people is "calories in calories out".

 

[Abezal]

For the average idiot its eating less then you burn is more then enough, for any one in any sport its gets more and more complex the deeper you get.

Dietary changes can have a massive impact on performance.

 

[YugoKing]

Quality and quantity exist

But reducing quantity sure works hence people don't care bout more after all they want guilt free fast food and sweets.

A calorie is a calorie but a apple is a apple and a mcdonalds burger is a mcdonalds burger.

 

[YugoKing]

People are lazy and wanna eat junk when their only rule is "calorie in calorie out".

 

[YugoKing]

"The body is a chemistry laboratory not a mathematical equasion"

 

[Starck]

People are lazy and wanna eat junk when their only rule is "calorie in calorie out".

If their goal is simply to be thinner, then why is that a problem?