Opinion Is "American" an ethnicity? If so, what are its defining characteristics?

[Fawlty]

So based on the definition in this thread encouraging American ethnicity seems positive.

But when we talk about ethno nationalism we are generally talking about something different, I need help here.

@Jack V Savage @Fawlty

For now I use the word "identity" as a placeholder for the ethnonationalist vs decent human beings struggle, since there is a war over the identity of America between people who accept the change in our demographics/power structures and those who fear it. The ethnonationalists are politically distinct because of how strongly they are trying to preserve or roll back the power/wealth relationships as they existed previously. These are the people who LOVE to remind us all the time that white men are under siege.

The difference may be: Who is running the show vs. What kind of show is it

But that said, even though it's something a little different it's certainly related to any potential definition of "American ethnicity." I don't know how to sort that out, and that's one of the reasons I'm hoping for some interesting thoughts here.

 

[Gandhi]

@Jack V Savage @Fawlty

Thanks and make sense

I have always argued that western liberal values of shared culture, democracy, civic duty, innovation, etc. is US culture. It includes a civic form of nationalism that eschews a cultural defensiveness of traditions that are not firmly routed in values. Euro judeo christian raptor Jesus takes a backseat to simple concepts of the enlightenment for example.

Ethnicity to me invokes a sense of new immigrants bonded together by a stronger sense of "old" tradition and common ancestry, as well as down trodden whites trying to stop teh "white genocide" by emulating some distorted version of it. But I can appreciate how the definition of the word can also apply to what you are saying which is probably not that different from the para above.

 

[Blood and Thunder]

I think the constant immigration and concepts like multiculturalism have prevented us from becoming an ethnic group, unlike people from other countries, whether they're homogeneous countries like Japan, or heterogeneous like Brazil. I happen to come from an area where hardly anyone identifies as an American in an ethnic sense (New England/Northeast). I understand certain regions of the US, such as Appalachia heavily identify as that, though. I think if there is ever wide-scale emigration from the US to another country or other countries then Americans living there would form more of an ethnic identity, similar to Latinos in the US who are divided by race and class in their own countries but they form a more cohesive identity in the US.

Up until recently America was pretty homogeneous where some generations go way back to the beginning. Those people are still here so do they count as an ethnicity?

What qualifies as an ethnicity in your eyes? Do you have to find the original source of every race to identify true and pure ethnicity?

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Up until recently America was pretty homogeneous where some generations go way back to the beginning. Those people are still here so do they count as an ethnicity?

What qualifies as an ethnicity in your eyes? Do you have to find the original source of every race to identify true and pure ethnicity?

People in Appalachia or wherever are free to identify as American as their ethnicity. It may be the most accurate label in their case. In my case, it's my nationality but not my ethnicity. I don't belong to any one ethnic group, but I only have one nationality. I have several relatives who have two. This is because my grandmother was born in Ireland, so her and her children have Irish/EU citizenship as well as American. In my neck of the woods people are more likely to say they're Irish or Italian or whatever rather than American, although we all know that we are Americans and are proud of that.

 

[Blood and Thunder]

People in Appalachia or wherever are free to identify as American as their ethnicity. It may be the most accurate label in their case. In my case, it's my nationality but not my ethnicity. I don't belong to any one ethnic group, but I only have one nationality. I have several relatives who have two. This is because my grandmother was born in Ireland, so her and her children have Irish/EU citizenship as well as American. In my neck of the woods people are more likely to say they're Irish or Italian or whatever rather than American, although we all know that we are Americans and are proud of that.

What do you view Appalachians as including other Americans who's family goes back to the beginning?

What makes Irish folks an ethnicity? Or Italian? Or British? Or Japanese?

 

[Hollywood Jack]

What do you view Appalachians as including other Americans who's family goes back to the beginning?

What makes Irish folks an ethnicity? Or Italian? Or British? Or Japanese?

Appalachia is the region where the most people identify as American. Northeast is the region with the least amount of people who do so. If you go back to the first page of this thread, there's a map that shows the percentages of people who identify as American throughout the US.

People in those countries developed a homogeneous population with a shared genetic, environmental, cultural and linguistic lineage. Whereas Americans consist of people from all over the world, and while there are some shared linguistic and cultural factors, it's more of a national than an ethnic identity. It would become more of an ethnic identity if mass immigration stopped, like in Mexico or Brazil. Mexicans and Brazilians formed more of an ethnic identity when people stopped immigrating there and the language and culture became more universal.

 

[Blood and Thunder]

Appalachia is the region where the most people identify as American. Northeast is the region with the least amount of people who do so. If you go back to the first page of this thread, there's a map that shows the percentages of people who identify as American throughout the US.

People in those countries developed a homogeneous population with a shared genetic, environmental, cultural and linguistic lineage. Whereas Americans consist of people from all over the world, and while there are some shared linguistic and cultural factors, it's more of a national than an ethnic identity. It would become more of an ethnic identity if mass immigration stopped, like in Mexico or Brazil. Mexicans and Brazilians formed more of an ethnic identity when people stopped immigrating there and the language and culture became more universal.

It was mostly Europeans that came over to America in the beginning and they ended up breeding with each other. America has its own unique language, culture and shared genetics. There is a majority in America. Even if some Americans don't think they're an ethnicity, they still technically are.

The Irish came from somewhere. The vikings invaded Ireland. The British have a lot of German DNA and were invaded by multiple groups. There are people from all over the world in those countries now.

There are people from all over the world in Mexico and Brazil too and there's still immigration to those countries. So does that mean ethnicity is strictly based on modern immigration policy and whether or not countries want their immigrants to integrate? Does this mean the British will stop being an ethnicity soon since their government is accepting people from all over the world and their cultures?

I think this might be why people all over the world are against so much immigration.

I also think it's kind of funny that some people think Americans are inbred and somehow that's a bad thing when that's what happens all throughout the rest of the world.

 

[calavera2]

I think he's just making light of the fact that most americans, black or white, play dumb or are dumb about the indigenous race that alot of mexicans/mexican americans are. I'm friends with some natives from the southwest and some of canada and if they were walking around the east coast people would call them "mexicans" lol.

Some things just have to be pointed out.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

It was mostly Europeans that came over to America in the beginning and they ended up breeding with each other. America has its own unique language, culture and shared genetics. There is a majority in America. Even if some Americans don't think they're an ethnicity, they still technically are.

The Irish came from somewhere. The vikings invaded Ireland. The British have a lot of German DNA and were invaded by multiple groups. There are people from all over the world in those countries now.

There are people from all over the world in Mexico and Brazil too and there's still immigration to those countries. So does that mean ethnicity is strictly based on modern immigration policy and whether or not countries want their immigrants to integrate? Does this mean the British will stop being an ethnicity soon since their government is accepting people from all over the world and their cultures?

I think this might be why people all over the world are against so much immigration.

I also think it's kind of funny that some people think Americans are inbred and somehow that's a bad thing when that's what happens all throughout the rest of the world.

You ask a Brazilian what he is and he tells you he's Brazilian, whether he's white, black or brown. Whether he's of German, Italian or Japanese descent. You ask an American what he is and he says he's Irish, Italian, or Irish and Italian, etc. Just the way it is.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

A real American fights for the rights of every man...

 

[TeTe]

Beneath the cultural struggle over the identity of America is a question of what it means to be American. This thread is not intended for asking who should run things, or which racial group is this or that, but to ask whether the sum of the things that make up America qualifies it as an ethnic group.

I think the answer is "no" and I like that about my country. But it's a legit question that is becoming more relevant as America grows older, and especially as the various ethnicities mix.

Is it a sort of superethnicity? If you drive across the country you will see everything, and in unexpected places. Is it possible that an acceptance of all ethnicities somehow becomes an ethnic characteristic? The cuisine might be an example of this.

The easy answer is that American is a nationality comprised of many ethnic groups. Maybe that's just correct and it could be left at that.

We have a unique consumer (and entrepreneurship) culture that binds us. What does that count for in terms of ethnicity? Anything?


Anyway, this is not something I'm equipped to argue with much confidence. But I'm interested in hearing how "American" might be considered an ethnicity.

On a very basic level I'd say if you were born here, that makes you American. Even if your parents aren't from the US, if you assimilate into American culture from the get go I think it qualifies you. I know Hispanic, black, etc people who just flat out say they're American.

Even if you identify as African-American, Korean-American, etc. you at least concede that you are partially comprised of being "American" and that says something about recognizing the difference.

Of course I'd agree what necessitates being "American" is highly debatable because of the melting pot that this country is. But by shear labeling.. you could say that Central or South Americans could be American too. Whereas they'd just normally identify as Hispanic or Brazilian, or Venezuelan.

This is where it think culture plays a huge part in determining this.

 

[TeTe]

I also think people who just identify as American regardless of their family's origination and don't get caught up in whole "I'm part this, and part that, etc" tend to be less racist.

 

[Blood and Thunder]

You ask a Brazilian what he is and he tells you he's Brazilian, whether he's white, black or brown. Whether he's of German, Italian or Japanese descent. You ask an American what he is and he says he's Irish, Italian, or Irish and Italian, etc. Just the way it is.

Do you think there are Americans (who's family goes back to the beginning) that say "I'm British"? That just sounds so odd for obvious reasons. Like TeTe pointed out, blacks in America are so far removed from Africa just like how the majority of whites are so far removed from Europe that they can't be anything other than an American ethnicity. America has a majority and is not completely comprised of new immigrants.

That map on the first page doesn't tell the exact numbers of who thinks they are an American and who doesn't.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

hey definitions and etymology exist!!!

American (n.)
1570s, originally "one of the aboriginal peoples discovered in the Western Hemisphere by Europeans," from Modern Latin Americanus, from America (q.v.). The original sense is now Native Americans; the sense of "resident of North America of European (originally British) descent" is from 1765.

Websters 1828
AMER'ICAN, adjective Pertaining to America.

AMER'ICAN, noun A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Do you think there are Americans (who's family goes back to the beginning) that say "I'm British"? That just sounds so odd for obvious reasons. Like TeTe pointed out, blacks in America are so far removed from Africa just like how the majority of whites are so far removed from Europe that they can't be anything other than an American ethnicity. America has a majority and is not completely comprised of new immigrants.

That map on the first page doesn't tell the exact numbers of who thinks they are an American and who doesn't.

You notice how you are calling those Americans, white and black though?

 

[Blood and Thunder]

You notice how you are calling those Americans, white and black though?

So what? Are they not an American ethnicity since they are so far removed from their place of origin? The Natives came from somewhere too, they didn't just rise up from the ground. They became far removed from their place of origin and became a new ethnicity after their numbers grew in their new location and after developing their own culture.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

So what? Are they not an American ethnicity since they are so far removed from their place of origin? The Natives came from somewhere too, they didn't just rise up from the ground. They became far removed from their place of origin and became a new ethnicity after their numbers grew in their new location.

yeah a black american ethnicity and a white american ethnicity.

 

[Blood and Thunder]

yeah a black american ethnicity and a white american ethnicity.

Yeah that's how it played out.

 

[Fawlty]

hey definitions and etymology exist!!!

American (n.)
1570s, originally "one of the aboriginal peoples discovered in the Western Hemisphere by Europeans," from Modern Latin Americanus, from America (q.v.). The original sense is now Native Americans; the sense of "resident of North America of European (originally British) descent" is from 1765.

Websters 1828
AMER'ICAN, adjective Pertaining to America.

AMER'ICAN, noun A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.

Hey let's play the dictionary game!!!!!!

Jap·a·nese
/ˌjapəˈnēz/
adjective
adjective: Japanese

1. 1.
2. relating to Japan or its language, culture, or people.

noun
noun: Japanese; plural noun: Japanese

1. 1.
2. a native or inhabitant of Japan, or a person of Japanese descent.
3. 2.
4. the language of Japan, spoken by almost all of its population.

hmm...don't see "ethnic" or "ethnicity" in there anywhere. I guess that answers the question. "Japanese" is not an ethnicity.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Do you think there are Americans (who's family goes back to the beginning) that say "I'm British"? That just sounds so odd for obvious reasons. Like TeTe pointed out, blacks in America are so far removed from Africa just like how the majority of whites are so far removed from Europe that they can't be anything other than an American ethnicity. America has a majority and is not completely comprised of new immigrants.

That map on the first page doesn't tell the exact numbers of who thinks they are an American and who doesn't.

They don't say "British" but it is common for people of English descent to identify as English, although those of English descent in places like Appalachia tended to identify as American after that became an option in American censuses (starting in 1990). In 1980, before the American option was available, 49.6% of people in Kentucky identified as English, while 26.3% identified as Irish and 24.3% identified as German.

To be exact, 7.2% of Americans identify as "American" as their ethnicity. Slightly more Americans identify as "English" (7.8%). "American" is the sixth largest ancestry group in the US. The top 5 in descending order is German (14.7%), black or African American (non Hispanic) (12.3%), Mexican (of any race) (10.9%), Irish (10.6%) and English (7.8%). So more Americans identify as Mexican or African American than as "American". As far as the graph goes, while it does not give exact percentages, it does give us a good idea of the areas where the most Americans identify as "American".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Ancestry

If you want to look at individual states, 20.2% of people in Kentucky identify as American, which is the largest reported ancestry in the state. In Massachusetts, 4.26% of the population identifies as American, making it the 9th most common identity group in the state. The largest is Irish at 21.16%. Some of the identities that are more common than American in Massachusetts is Puerto Rican (4.52%) and Portuguese (4.40%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky#Race_and_ancestry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Massachusetts

You can go through that type of info for every state in the country if you want...