Ippon Seoi Nage

[Harukaze]

Harukaze, are you describing somekind of drop seoi? Because Japanese guys taught me a really low ippon seoi just like you describe.
When you go really low between the feets of uke, do you sit on your heels?

Oddly I can only do drop ippon and normal morote... I feel off balance with drop morote and normal ippon, I guess I should practice more.

When I hear "drop" seoi nage, I usually think of tori hitting the mat with his knees during tsukuri, so by that understanding, no that's not what I'm referring to.

Ah, I have no idea about penalties in wrestling. I've only learned a little bit.

I *think* Harukaze is referring to the seoi-nage variation where you box step into a squat position on the balls of your feet?

I think that's what he's referring to.

A visiting ikkyu from a local club close to mine does this all the time in uchi komi. He's never tried it on me in randori though.

Correct, that's what I was referring to.

I think I've seen part of A New Wind, I know I watched all of the Inoue video. It's been quite a while.

Both, but mostly off the lapel. I use morote if I turn to the left, ippon if I turn to the right. Ippon feels weak sauce whether I throw from a sleeve grip or a lapel grip, though.

Turismo:

I watched the video, and the seoi that he's doing looks like morote, but with the distance from the camera, not certain.

My grip on the lapel feels far and away tighter than when I turn in for a seoi on my left and use uke's extended arm. Part of me wants to batter through Uke like a wrecking ball to basically force the load, and the other part is saying that I'm just going to undo my kuzushi.

I do think that the power generation will have something to do with not being very low. For morote I'd compare my body position to something close to a half squat. For ippon, maybe somewhere around a quarter.

I'm wondering if you're not pulling at an upward-enough trajectory with your hikite then.

 

[jackson001]

Other stuff

I'm wondering if you're not pulling at an upward-enough trajectory with your hikite then.

Are you talking about during kuzushi or kake? The only time I have any sort of upward motion with my sleeve hand is when I make room for the entry.

 

[Harukaze]

Are you talking about during kuzushi or kake? The only time I have any sort of upward motion with my sleeve hand is when I make room for the entry.

During kuzushi and arguably even during tsukuri.

 

[jackson001]

Watched the Koga video last night. GOnna give some of that footwork a go and see what happens.

 

[QingTian]

Best way to get good critique is to post a video.

 

[QingTian]

I can't swear to it, but I think in the Judo Masterclass book for seoi, they say to get lower for morote. Thats what I've been coached to do in the past, as well.

As for the tsurite for ippon, that makes sense, I'll have to pay more attention to what I'm doing with it and report back. I will say that for ippon, I put far and away more emphasis on my hikite/sleeve hand. With morote, I feel like there is more of a 50/50 split.

With morote and being lower, I feel like I'm better able to generate power for the throw, so that is something I'll look at. I've also started a kettlebell routine, so hopefully that will pay some dividends, as well.

Your problem is that your morote style is inappropriate for ippon seoi. They are two different throwing mechanisms. Morote can be done like ippon, but the Masterclass book shows the low style.

It's too much for me to type out the differences at this time, but picture ippon seoi like swinging a sledge hammer. You should not have to lift*. The feel should be having a sack of rice over you and pulling DOWN.

That tall person who says he lifts can get away with it with strong legs but ironically will have trouble throwing someone taller because using the legs become less important then (as opposed to upper body control).

* You might lift when much taller but that's only so you don't have to scrunch yourself. It's still mechanically inefficient. At that point my opinion is to not use ippon seoi.

 

[jackson001]

Your problem is that your morote style is inappropriate for ippon seoi. They are two different throwing mechanisms. Morote can be done like ippon, but the Masterclass book shows the low style.

It's too much for me to type out the differences at this time, but picture ippon seoi like swinging a sledge hammer. You should not have to lift*. The feel should be having a sack of rice over you and pulling DOWN.

That tall person who says he lifts can get away with it with strong legs but ironically will have trouble throwing someone taller because using the legs become less important then (as opposed to upper body control).

* You might lift when much taller but that's only so you don't have to scrunch yourself. It's still mechanically inefficient. At that point my opinion is to not use ippon seoi.

While not on the nose, that sounds similar to what I am doing and getting little lift at present. I'm able to execute seoi and use it in randori, but I'm trying to make the throw a very high impact throw. Without changing lift, I can only see achieving higher force through faster execution.

 

[RJ Green]

Reverse seoi all day! Uke will also brain fart about how they're supposed to slap for it, which means they're not trying shenanigans! Yay!

Also, people bend forward at the waist, but not sideways, so they're even more...its like throwing a board versus a bag. Its the same reason Sode works. I'm a lunatic.

 

[jackson001]

I do a reverse seoi similar to this, but with a lift instead of a straight take down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vouBCU2-uP4

It knocks the BJJ guys I train with from time to time senseless.

EDIT: Tried to embed with the youtube button, and I failed at life.

 

[QingTian]

While not on the nose, that sounds similar to what I am doing and getting little lift at present. I'm able to execute seoi and use it in randori, but I'm trying to make the throw a very high impact throw. Without changing lift, I can only see achieving higher force through faster execution.

Not to be a jerk, but you should achieve higher force through technical precision. It sounds like you've got something fundamentally wrong, and the best way to figure out what is to post a video of yourself. I'm a Judo BB and know ippon seoi, and would be happy to critique for you.

To embed youtube, only post the URL starting from watch? within the [YT][/YT] markup. It's a stupid system but that's how you do it on sherdog.

 

[jackson001]

Not to be a jerk, but you should achieve higher force through technical precision. It sounds like you've got something fundamentally wrong, and the best way to figure out what is to post a video of yourself. I'm a Judo BB and know ippon seoi, and would be happy to critique for you.

To embed youtube, only post the URL starting from watch? within the [YT][/YT] markup. It's a stupid system but that's how you do it on sherdog.

Don't worry about sounding like a jerk, I agree that I'm missing something. Won't be able to post a video for a few days though.