Introduction to SUMO

[Lapu-Lapu]

Great work GFY! Can't wait for this month's basho and your thread in the Sports Bar.

 

[Fork]

Great work GFY! Can't wait for this month's basho and your thread in the Sports Bar.

i think i'm going to make the thread here in the grappling forum this time, just to change things up, and maybe new people will give the sport a shot. i'll be sure to pm the sumo thread regulars though, to let people know.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

i really have no idea how big he was when he actually did train in sumo, but you'll often see that the guys who are just starting out aren't necessarily that big. pretty much everybody starts out much smaller than they end up when they're in the higher divisions.

Machida competed in amatuer Sumo, where there are weight classes: Categories

 

[The Black Spoon]

Extreme Sumo.

 

[BSFT]

interesting thread, it's always neat to learn something about a different grappling sport.

what exactly are the rules of sumo? from the clips i've watched, i get the gist is to get the opponent out of the ring or onto his back, but other than that, i really have know idea what the rules are.

 

[RacerX]

I've always thought sumo was pretty rad, probably because of E.Honda on street fighter.

This is kind of a silly question, but.. Do the rules make it beneficial to be fat in any specific way, or is it just tradition?

What GoForkYorself said. Also there are no weight classes in professional Sumo and it is harder to push something covered in yielding fat.

 

[Fork]

what exactly are the rules of sumo? from the clips i've watched, i get the gist is to get the opponent out of the ring or onto his back, but other than that, i really have know idea what the rules are.

well, before they start the match they go back and forth throwing salt into the ring and doing all kinds of ritual stuff. then when it's time for them to fight the referee points his fan forward, and when both rikishi put their fists down on the clay they start. sometimes it's hard for them to get the timing right, and if one of them jumps the gun it's called a mata and they just keep trying again until it works. and for the initial charge you can jump to the left or right, or sort of up in the air (though these are usually frowned upon) but it's illegal to move backward.

and regarding beating your opponent it's not just about getting the opponent out of the ring or onto his back, but if any part of his body touches the ground aside from his feet he loses. that includes their hair, so if you tip your opponent over and their topknot touches the ground they've lost. this even extends to the rituals they perform after the tournament has finished for the day. they have a lower division wrestler come in and do a bow twirling ceremony, and recently the guy dropped the bow onto the dohyo and picked it up with his hands, touching the ground when doing so. he was supposed to pick it up with his foot, but since he touched the ground he botched the ritual.

you can't strike with an open fist, but palm strikes are fine (generally they're used to push, but they can be used as strikes as well) and so are shoulder blasts, and i've seen asashoryu knock down his opponent kotooshu with a kind of side-elbow but i assume true elbow strikes are illegal too. you can kick your opponent in the leg, as a trip. and headbutting is perfectly legal as well, and some of the head to head clashes (literally) are really powerful.

you can't do any eye-gouging or all that kind of stuff, but that's fairly rare. pulling the hair is illegal and does happen occasionally. because their hair is done up in a topknot, often when one wrestler is trying to pull their opponent down by grabbing the back of their neck (called a hikiotoshi and i'm sure it a common move in all forms of grappling) their fingers will accidentally get caught in their opponent's hair. if that happens, even if it's accidental, the "hair-puller" loses the match automatically. you're also not allowed to grab the "groin area" of the mawashi belt, but harumafuji did that when he slammed goeido down, so sometimes these things get past the judges:


and if a match has gone on too long and the wrestlers are at a stalemate, they do a mizu-iri where the gyoji referee will have them stop and mark where their feet were in the ring, then they break and get some water, get back into the positions they were in and restart the match. this is pretty rare, but here's a recent example in a match between mongolian tokitenku and russian aran:

 

[BSFT]

well, before they start the match they go back and forth throwing salt into the ring and doing all kinds of ritual stuff. then when it's time for them to fight the referee points his fan forward, and when both rikishi put their fists down on the clay they start. sometimes it's hard for them to get the timing right, and if one of them jumps the gun it's called a mata and they just keep trying again until it works. and for the initial charge you can jump to the left or right, or sort of up in the air (though these are usually frowned upon) but it's illegal to move backward.

and regarding beating your opponent it's not just about getting the opponent out of the ring or onto his back, but if any part of his body touches the ground aside from his feet he loses. that includes their hair, so if you tip your opponent over and their topknot touches the ground they've lost. this even extends to the rituals they perform after the tournament has finished for the day. they have a lower division wrestler come in and do a bow twirling ceremony, and recently the guy dropped the bow onto the dohyo and picked it up with his hands, touching the ground when doing so. he was supposed to pick it up with his foot, but since he touched the ground he botched the ritual.

you can't strike with an open fist, but palm strikes are fine (generally they're used to push, but they can be used as strikes as well) and so are shoulder blasts, and i've seen asashoryu knock down his opponent kotooshu with a kind of side-elbow but i assume true elbow strikes are illegal too. you can kick your opponent in the leg, as a trip. and headbutting is perfectly legal as well, and some of the head to head clashes (literally) are really powerful.

you can't do any eye-gouging or all that kind of stuff, but that's fairly rare. pulling the hair is illegal and does happen occasionally. because their hair is done up in a topknot, often when one wrestler is trying to pull their opponent down by grabbing the back of their neck (called a hikiotoshi and i'm sure it a common move in all forms of grappling) their fingers will accidentally get caught in their opponent's hair. if that happens, even if it's accidental, the "hair-puller" loses the match automatically. you're also not allowed to grab the "groin area" of the mawashi belt, but harumafuji did that when he slammed goeido down, so sometimes these things get past the judges:


and if a match has gone on too long and the wrestlers are at a stalemate, they do a mizu-iri where the gyoji referee will have them stop and mark where their feet were in the ring, then they break and get some water, get back into the positions they were in and restart the match. this is pretty rare, but here's a recent example in a match between mongolian tokitenku and russian aran:

thanks, that's the kind of stuff i was looking for.

 

[mehp]

Why do they all seem to have long hair, when it is a disadvantage (as you said hair touching the ground means defeat)?
And don't people get hurt, when they're thrown outside the ring or even into the audience?
Would it theoretically be possible to win with a standing submission (guillotine choke or wrist lock e.g.)?

 

[Fork]

Why do they all seem to have long hair, when it is a disadvantage (as you said hair touching the ground means defeat)?

as far as i know their topknot (chonmage) is a requirement for a sumo. there are hairdressers in sumo, who all have different ranks, who put the wrestlers' hair into a topknot. the wrestlers in the lower divisions aren't allowed to have their hair in that style, and it's certainly a source of pride. when a sumo retires their hair is cut, and here's a picture from recently retired dejima's ceremony:

there are some balding guys whose topknots aren't quite as long, but it doesn't seem like a big deal. it's pretty rare that you'll lose because your hair was too long. there may be some kind of hair length requirements, but i'm not aware of them.

And don't people get hurt, when they're thrown outside the ring or even into the audience?

yeah, although not as often as one would expect. wrestlers obviously do get injured during the course of tournaments (and training) and sometimes with what seem to be fairly serious bumps and bruises, but unless they're injured pretty seriously they'll keep competing. but i wouldn't say that falling off of the dohyo causes that many injuries, even though it seems like it should... i don't know, i've always found that surprising.

spectators sitting in the front row do get injures as well, but again this is a surprisingly rare incident. especially considering how many older people sit up front you'd expect more injuries.

Would it theoretically be possible to win with a standing submission (guillotine choke or wrist lock e.g.)?

things like this do happen, but you would win the fight for forcing your opponent out, or down to the clay rather than the "submission". kaio, sumo's randy couture that i mentioned earlier, is famous for his kotenage (or "kaionage") armbar throw which has caused a few injuries to his opponent's elbow.

and recently a fighter (shotenro) used a guillotine to pretty much force his opponent (mokonami) out of the ring, but it looked like he was on his way to getting choked out. i've seen in rules that choking isn't allowed, but this would seem to be a clear violation of that rule, so it must be referring to something else.

 

[amhlilhaus]

heres a good video of yokozuna chiyonofuji, around 280 pounds of muscle displaying a range of techniques. he won 53 straight matches which is what this video shows.

now consider how fast sumo matches are, that he only wrestles guys who are at the top level in fellow yokozuna, ozeki, and the other sanyaku wrestlers along with the occasional hot maegashira, then tell me this isn't pure awesome.

oh yeah and most of the guys he goes up against outweigh him by 50 pounds.

YouTube - CHIYONOFUJI 53 successive victories, short edited

 

[Hades666]

i really have no idea how big he was when he actually did train in sumo, but you'll often see that the guys who are just starting out aren't necessarily that big. pretty much everybody starts out much smaller than they end up when they're in the higher divisions.

kiyoshi tamura also used to do sumo, and there was a cool documentary about his sumo days on youtube but it got taken down a while ago. but from what i can remember he wasn't very big when he did it.



at the lowest ranks the wrestlers do have to wear a certain belt color, but at the upper divisions the belt color is just a personal choice and rikishi will change their belt color at certain points. sometimes they'll change the belt color if they get promoted. when harumafuji was promoted to ozeki he changed his name from ama to harumafuji, and changed his belt color from black to silver. they'll also change their mawashi color to change their luck or something.

yokozuna hakuho recently changed from a dark brown belt to a bright gold belt which is very rare. hakuho decided to change to a gold belt because when he won that tournament on day 13 he had tied the number of championships won by former yokozuna wajima (14 championships) who used to wear a gold mawashi, so on the next day hakuho came out with gold as a kind of tribute to him.

definitely, it helps a lot to have a low center of gravity, and having a lot of weight moving you forward or keeping you down when someone is trying to throw you is very important. but there's an important balance between fat, muscle, flexibility, and all kinds of stuff. and they mention this in one of the videos i posted, but the average wrestler used to be quite a bit smaller than they are today.

but there are lighter/smaller guys with great technique like the legendary mainoumi:

wow that is very impressive, sumo is fuckin brutal, thanks for postin

 

[Fork]

heres a good video of yokozuna chiyonofuji, around 280 pounds of muscle displaying a range of techniques. he won 53 straight matches which is what this video shows.

now consider how fast sumo matches are, that he only wrestles guys who are at the top level in fellow yokozuna, ozeki, and the other sanyaku wrestlers along with the occasional hot maegashira, then tell me this isn't pure awesome.

oh yeah and most of the guys he goes up against outweigh him by 50 pounds.

YouTube - CHIYONOFUJI 53 successive victories, short edited

yeah, this is one of the great things about sumo in my opinion, that the ranking system and the format of their competitions mean that if you're at the top you fight all of the rest of the guys at the top. you're competing against all of the guys who are ranked near you, and they're ranked based on performance. losses are pretty easy to come by, even when you're at the top, so to go on a long winning streak like chiyonofuji's is really amazing.

 

[immovablestone]

heres a good video of yokozuna chiyonofuji, around 280 pounds of muscle displaying a range of techniques. he won 53 straight matches which is what this video shows.

now consider how fast sumo matches are, that he only wrestles guys who are at the top level in fellow yokozuna, ozeki, and the other sanyaku wrestlers along with the occasional hot maegashira, then tell me this isn't pure awesome.

oh yeah and most of the guys he goes up against outweigh him by 50 pounds.

YouTube - CHIYONOFUJI 53 successive victories, short edited

Thank you for this, that was fucking awesome.

 

[onepointeighty]

Thank you for this, that was fucking awesome.

is that him in ur AV?

its impressive to go 53 without a loss in anything, this is more impressive tho especially since he looked tiny compared to some of thos guys!

 

[mehp]

Thank you for your answers!

and recently a fighter (shotenro) used a guillotine to pretty much force his opponent (mokonami) out of the ring, but it looked like he was on his way to getting choked out. i've seen in rules that choking isn't allowed, but this would seem to be a clear violation of that rule, so it must be referring to something else.

Maybe grabbing the throat is not allowed?

 

[Fork]

Thank you for this, that was fucking awesome.

lawlz, nice av. chiyonofuji is a true badass, nothing but solid steel and sex appeal. even when he was retired from competition. i'm pretty sure i heard that when he would sit beside the ring as a judge he said that sumo wrestlers were scared of falling onto him because he would always hold his pencil with the point up so if they fell on him his pencil would stab them.

Maybe grabbing the throat is not allowed?

yeah, i think that might be the case, but i'm pretty sure i've seen that as well. when one wrestler is using a slapping/thrusting attack (tsuppari) he'll aim at his opponent's upper chest, face, or neck to force their head up. and i'm pretty sure i've occasionally seen someone holding their hand to their opponent's throat with what looked like a choke. maybe that just got past the judges though, and it's not common.

 

[amhlilhaus]

for those who like tsuppari, heres some gems

YouTube - Takatoriki vs. Akebono : Hatsu 1996

YouTube - Terao vs. Takatoriki : Aki 2002

YouTube - Terao vs. Hoshi : Aki 1985

YouTube - Terao vs. Konishiki : Nagoya 1989

 

[Fork]

lawlz, takatoriki was the man. sumo brawler.


and he had a great rivalry with akebono, and a great staredown:


and here's him winning his first and only championship, the biggest moment in his career:


and those are great matches from terao too.

 

[Fork]

here's another great match from terao against musashimaru, where you can really see terao's speed: