International Breaking: Mossad chief threatened family of ICC prosecutor; ICJ orders Israel to stop Rafah offensive; ICC seeks arrest of Netanyahu for war crimes

[avenue94]

A single point in time quote in the immediate aftermath of 10/7 does not equal “blocking food imports for prolonged periods of time”.

It was blocked for about two weeks. And at any rate, the flow of aid into Gaza has been signifncalty lower than pre-war, which was already designed to be the bare minimum possible to avoid famine (Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence).

Do you not find it odd that nearly all the aid agencies working in Gaza have accused Israel of unduly limiting and hampering the flow of aid into the region? Or that so many aid workers have died in Israeli strikes?

 

[kflo]

It was blocked for about two weeks. And at any rate, the flow of aid into Gaza has been signifncalty lower than pre-war, which was already designed to be the bare minimum possible to avoid famine (Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence).

Do you not find it odd that nearly all the aid agencies working in Gaza have accused Israel of unduly limiting and hampering the flow of aid into the region? Or that so many aid workers have died in Israeli strikes?

You sound like a propaganda machine. Why don’t you provide a link to Israel having a standing policy of keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence.

 

[avenue94]

You sound like a propaganda machine. Why don’t you provide a link to Israel having a standing policy of keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence.

We can go by the numbers. Prior to the war, about 400 trucks were allowed in daily. Now it's barely half of that most days. How do you explain that?

Or there is the prime minister in 2008 publicly saying, " We won't allow for a humanitarian crisis, but we have no intention of making their lives easier."

Or we have the Israeli government blocking a shipment of flour from the US for over a month. Or the well documented fact that large amounts of arable land in the region have been declared off limits.

We also have aid group after aid group publicly accusing Israel of arbitrary and harmful restrictions of aid. Items such as water filters and dates were blocked.

Let's turn the question around since you keep insisting that it's all propaganda. Why is it that nearly every aid group working in the region has accused Israel of blocking aid? Are you really going to insist that it's all anti-Israel bias?

 

[kflo]

We can go by the numbers. Prior to the war, about 400 trucks were allowed in daily. Now it's barely half of that most days. How do you explain that?

Or there is the prime minister in 2008 publicly saying, " We won't allow for a humanitarian crisis, but we have no intention of making their lives easier."

Or we have the Israeli government blocking a shipment of flour from the US for over a month. Or the well documented fact that large amounts of arable land in the region have been declared off limits.

We also have aid group after aid group publicly accusing Israel of arbitrary and harmful restrictions of aid. Items such as water filters and dates were blocked.

Let's turn the question around since you keep insisting that it's all propaganda. Why is it that nearly every aid group working in the region has accused Israel of blocking aid? Are you really going to insist that it's all anti-Israel bias?

Lol.

I asked you to provide a link to Israel having a standing policy of keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence.

I get why you want to turn the question around.

 

[avenue94]

Lol.

I asked you to provide a link to Israel having a standing policy of keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence.

I get why you want to turn the question around.

I said that there is ample evidence of Israel purposefully keeping Gaza at the brink of subsistence and I provided it. Yet you're trying to handwave it away and making no good faith attempt to engage with the points. You can stop pretending that you have any interest in considering the rather large body of evidence on this matter.

Again, why is it that nearly every aid organization, country and international body has accused Israel of arbitrarily limiting aid into Gaza? Why has aid into Gaza been half of pre-war levels and sitting at the border because of red tape?

Here's a US cable from the 2000s to that effect. (""As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed ... on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge"). Are you going to try and engage with it?

 

[kflo]

I said that there is ample evidence of Israel purposefully keeping Gaza at the brink of subsistence and I provided it. Yet you're trying to handwave it away and making no good faith attempt to engage with the points. You can stop pretending that you have any interest in considering the rather large body of evidence on this matter.

Again, why is it that nearly every aid organization, country and international body has accused Israel of arbitrarily limiting aid into Gaza? Why has aid into Gaza been half of pre-war levels and sitting at the border because of red tape?

Here's a US cable from the 2000s to that effect. (""As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed ... on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge"). Are you going to try and engage with it?

You’re linking to a Wikileaks report from 2008 detailing positions from right after Hamas took control of Gaza in 2007. That’s the best you can do to support saying “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”. You should reevaluate knowing how that comes across.

 

[avenue94]

You’re linking to a Wikileaks report from 2008 detailing positions from right after Hamas took control of Gaza in 2007. That’s the best you can do to support saying “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”. You should reevaluate knowing how that comes across.

I provided one or two statements, as well as other evidence. You're jumping all over the place and keep moving the goals. So let's stick on this for a min.

Why do you think the 2008 cable is not credible evidence that at that time Israel was keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence?

 

[kflo]

I provided one or two statements, as well as other evidence. You're jumping all over the place and keep moving the goals. So let's stick on this for a min.

Why do you think the 2008 cable is not credible evidence that at that time Israel was keeping Gaza on the brink of subsistence?

More important - why do you think that evidence from 2007 immediately after Hamas assumed control of gaza supports your position that “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”. Do you think that holds in perpetuity? Why reference it as if it’s a proven permanent policy?

 

[avenue94]

More important - why do you think that evidence from 2007 immediately after Hamas assumed control of gaza supports your position that “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”. Do you think that holds in perpetuity? Why reference it as if it’s a proven permanent policy?

We know Israel was purposefully minimizing aid imports back then, we know they're doing it now, and that leaves the middle period, where Israel made a point of making large amounts of agricultural land no go zones (whether you think security drove these decisions or not). We also have years of NGOs and aid groups complaining about the Israeli blockade.

But let's bring this back to square one since you keep moving the goal posts.

Circumstances on the ground can justify blockades and limits on what goes in and out.

What circumstances justify blocking the import of flour, dates, water filters or oxygen tanks? And why is the flow of aid into Gaza not even half of what it should be?

I'm not even asking you the hard question of why Israel is refusing to release unedited footage from the Flour Massacre or let an independent party properly investigate it.

 

[kflo]

We know Israel was purposefully minimizing aid imports back then, we know they're doing it now, and that leaves the middle period, where Israel made a point of making large amounts of agricultural land no go zones (whether you think security drove these decisions or not). We also have years of NGOs and aid groups complaining about the Israeli blockade.

But let's bring this back to square one since you keep moving the goal posts.


What circumstances justify blocking the import of flour, dates, water filters or oxygen tanks? And why is the flow of aid into Gaza not even half of what it should be?

I'm not even asking you the hard question of why Israel is refusing to release unedited footage from the Flour Massacre or let an independent party properly investigate it.

You can just acknowledge you lied (embellished?) instead of trying to play this game.

 

[avenue94]

You can just acknowledge you lied (embellished?) instead of trying to play this game.

What did I lie or embellish? You still can't answer: Why is the flow of aid into Gaza less than half of what it was before the war? And that's on a good day.

 

[kflo]

What did I lie or embellish? You still can't answer: Why is the flow of aid into Gaza less than half of what it was before the war? And that's on a good day.

“Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”

You don’t think this is a lie? Or did you just mistakenly leave out “possibly, in 2007”?

 

[avenue94]

“Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”

You don’t think this is a lie? Or did you just mistakenly leave out “possibly, in 2007”?

You are conveniently leaving out that Israel is purposefully restricting aid into Gaza. If Israel wasn't purposefully starving Gaza these past several months, it sure as shit looks like negligence so widespread that it's almost indistinguishable from attempting to starve a captive population.

Again, what is the military justification for blocking dates and water filters? You keep ducking this question.

You're so lost in a partisan talking point that you're ignoring mountains of evidence in front of you, much of it from fairly neutral parties. As I've told you, occupations and campaigns like the one Israel has waged for decades do not just hurt Gazans. They corrode the soul of their state and weaken their democratic and moral standards. It's why you see Israel give a fairly blank check to their soldiers to kill journalists and aid workers, with no fear of meaningful punishment. It's also why you see Israel backsliding as a democracy (still a democracy, but not as vibrant as it used to be even 10 years ago).

 

[kflo]

You are conveniently leaving out that Israel is purposefully restricting aid into Gaza. If Israel wasn't purposefully starving Gaza these past several months, it sure as shit looks like negligence so widespread that it's almost indistinguishable from attempting to starve a captive population.

Again, what is the military justification for blocking dates and water filters? You keep ducking this question.

You're so lost in a partisan talking point that you're ignoring mountains of evidence in front of you, much of it from fairly neutral parties. As I've told you, occupations and campaigns like the one Israel has waged for decades do not just hurt Gazans. They corrode the soul of their state and weaken their democratic and moral standards. It's why you see Israel give a fairly blank check to their soldiers to kill journalists and aid workers, with no fear of meaningful punishment. It's also why you see Israel backsliding as a democracy (still a democracy, but not as vibrant as it used to be even 10 years ago).

Again. You are clearly LYING.

You said “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”.

You provided 1 statement from 2007, from diplomats.

Are you denying you were implying that its documented this was an ongoing policy. Or did you just mean it was somewhat documented in 2007?

 

[avenue94]

Again. You are clearly LYING.

You said “Israel is well documented in statements saying Gaza should be kept at the brink of subsistence”.

You provided 1 statement from 2007, from diplomats.

Are you denying you were implying that its documented this was an ongoing policy. Or did you just mean it was somewhat documented in 2007?

I mean Israel has been restricting aid to varying degrees of severity since the blockade resumed post-Hamas elections then sectarian fighting with Fatah (I'll note many diplomats criticized this strategy at the time, and it's clear why) We have statements from now and back then. How many statements are you looking for here, particularly given these statements only add color to the clear shortages of aid we have repeatedly seen in Gaza in recent years.

And yet again, you're still ducking the question: Why is Israel restricting clearly humanitarian aid into Gaza currently?

 

[kflo]

I mean Israel has been restricting aid to varying degrees of severity since the blockade resumed post-Hamas elections then sectarian fighting with Fatah (I'll note many diplomats criticized this strategy at the time, and it's clear why) We have statements from now and back then. How many statements are you looking for here, particularly given these statements only add color to the clear shortages of aid we have repeatedly seen in Gaza in recent years.

And yet again, you're still ducking the question: Why is Israel restricting clearly humanitarian aid into Gaza currently?

C’mon. This is embarrassing. You claimed Israel had a well documented policy IN STATEMENTS and it turns out your well documented meant that one time back in 2007 from diplomats when Hamas first took control of Gaza.

 

[avenue94]

C’mon. This is embarrassing. You claimed Israel had a well documented policy IN STATEMENTS and it turns out your well documented meant that one time back in 2007 from diplomats when Hamas first took control of Gaza.

And yet again, you're still ducking the question: Why is Israel restricting clearly humanitarian aid into Gaza currently?

Come on man, this is embarassing. You can't answer this very simple question.

How many statements are you looking for here, particularly given these statements only add color to the clear shortages of aid we have repeatedly seen in Gaza in recent years.

You also aren't answering this question either. Almost as if you're just trying to waste time since you don't have any interest in actually engaging with any points that contradict your worldview.

 

[KaNesDeath]

That said I do not know if this is appropriate because I don't know enough about what is happening in Gaza and I don't know enoguh about the ICC standards for arrest.

Grounds definitely exist for Hamas leadership. Netanyahu case is a paper trail nightmare.

 

[Misanthropist]

I can’t help but feel Israel has dirt on the entire US politicians which is why they’re the first to step in to defend them like their lives depend on it.

Just think about it. Look at the names running under Biden and how much bribes AIPAC poured over them.. Also, Epstein was a Mossad agent who had piles of dirt so it’s not far fetch to think there are others like him.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I can’t help but feel Israel has dirt on the entire US politicians which is why they’re the first to step in to defend them like their lives depend on it.

Just think about it. Look at the names running under Biden and how much bribes AIPAC poured over them.. Also, Epstein was a Mossad agent who had piles of dirt so it’s not far fetch to think there are others like him.

Nah, that's going overboard. It's a strategic asset and has a powerful lobby. That's all it takes. Before the West wasn't convinced Mandela wasn't gonna stage a marxist revolution the stance on South Africa was largely the same in terms of tolerance of an apartheid-type state and the colonizer-colonized tropes that we hear now of uppity savage blacks starting violence were the norm. The veto would be used when people attempted to put sanctions on the South African government. And nobody would say South Africa had any sway on US politicians. The Middle East is an exponentially more important area for geopolitics than South Africa; hence, the limitless flow of cash and support.

I mean, it's patently obvious that the vast majority of nations with little skin in the game from a geopolitical perspective (let's call them "independents") are more balanced in their view on the Palestinian issue than the "do you condemn Hamas" general narrative of the West.