In your opinion how realistic is it to go for a Heel Hook in a street fight ? LOL

[Bigboot]

So I used to train with a blackbelt that loved all things heel hook. He just happens to be a bouncer at a pretty well know Gentleman's club in SoCal he’s used it at work a few times when needed and I got no doubt he’s telling the truth because another good blackbelt I’ve trained with is also a bouncer at the same club and has confirmed its true along with their boss who’s a purple belt and the head of security for the
company

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Yes. It's your responsibility to know the laws you're subject to, lest you be surprised by the consequences of breaking them. It doesn't take much research to find accounts of people whose lives have been ruined by misapplication of force. I've got no interest in being one of those, personally.

There is generally no catalogue of things you can do or can't. If someone truly is threatening you and you fuck them up you are fine.

What you can't do is fuck up someone just because he started it or threw the first punch or something if it is not a threat. Example: a boxer who baits some pedestrian to throw the first punch in an argument and then proceeds to KO the pedestrian. That boxer is going to jail because it was not reasonable.

But in the case above the boxer was never threatened. In a classical bro down there is no threat. When there is mutual provocation there is also no real threat and you could be seen as bearing responsibility.

But if someone is really coming at you and you are scared, I E. Really defending yourself then first of all these conversations are futile and when really defending yourself from a real threat, the law will understand that you did what you have to do.

But go ahead a consult your lawyer the next time your life is in danger.

 

[Normot]

My dads 60 year old Aikido buddy got heelhooked and his knee mangled trying to calm a much younger drunk dude down on a cruise ship.

BJJ won again I guess but kinda a shitty example.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

^^^^In fact, I wonder why what I proposed above does not exist. Imagine someone who can elbow you in the face while controlling your sleeves, and then pull your shirt over your head and knee you repeatedly in the face...............

Its called Combat Sambo

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Its called Combat Sambo

Elbows to the face are authorised in combat sambo?
WTF I must be getting senile.

 

[Kforcer]

My dads 60 year old Aikido buddy got heelhooked and his knee mangled trying to calm a much younger drunk dude down on a cruise ship.

BJJ won again I guess but kinda a shitty example.

Well in a sense, Aikido won and BJJ lost, since the Aikido guy apparently was doing something moral and brave, given his age, whereas the BJJ guy did something pathetic.
In BJJ's defense though, there are no shoratge of jack-asses in Aikido. I've met plenty of them.

 

[CFGroup]

For sure, a lawyer can make a meal out of an empty plate. If someone is dead set on lawyering up, they can try to make charges out of aggressive pointing.

However, given the option, I would much rather leave a physical altercation with someone waking up relatively unhurt, except for their ego. They can then choose to get over it, or reframe the situation any way they want in their head, and it stays between us. That person is a lot less likely to press the matter further, than someone who has to nurse not only a broken ego, but face the prospect of walking around with a limp for the next few months, or a broken arm in a sling, or a busted eye socket, that they have to explain to everybody.

Rule of thumb from my seven years as a case worker and security for a homeless resource complex.

If it involves a medical report, not just a police report the likelihood of prosecution goes way up.

It may be different in the privileged, fratboy, bar scuffle "self defense" world, but I've seen plenty of them get cuffed and stuffed after hours.

Prosecutors are trolling for easy convictions to pad their records and are ecstatic to go after people with no resources who will plead out. A medical incident report for injuries all but rubber stamps a grand jury indictment.

I had to testify countless times for my clients who didn't start an altercation against overzealous prosecutors. I'd point to the police report that I'd witness statement and testify it says so and so started the incident not my client. COA's in my experience are ether washed up failures or just out of law school, don't know how to competently prep or present and miss the most basic procedure.

The LEO that patrol the area would take a statement and pop for warrants if they could, but let everyone go if there's no documented injuries.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Being a lawyer, I don’t think I’d have any problems explaining that I am extremely expert in choking techniques, and have choked people thousands of times without hurting anyone. If anyone thinks it’s ‘deadly,’ that just displays spectacular ignorance about how chokes work.

You gotta lay into the other side to counter arguments like this. ‘Only a fantastic moron would ....’

“Your honor: the plaintiff just went on & on about how I supposedly “choked the air out of him”; but clearly I used his North Face jacket to apply Kata Juji Jime, which as everyone & their grandmother knows, is a blood strangulation.”

 

[Zankou]

“I Peruvian neck tied him into a gentle slumber. If you don’t know what that is, get the fuck out of this courtroom right now.

That includes you, your honor.”

 

[Whitebeltatlife]

I've seen a few videos of it working. One was in Streetbeefs and another was in the streets of Brazil, it was really sloppy with little control but you could hear the scream.

I think they're fine but circumstantial. Personally, I wouldn't shoot for one but I would attack it if it came up. I think a better strategy is takedown->ground and pound or get the back or a Kimura or something.

 

[EGDM]

If someone truly is threatening you and you fuck them up you are fine.

Defining the word "truly" is the problem.

There is generally no catalogue of things you can do or can't... But go ahead a consult your lawyer the next time your life is in danger.

Obviously, the point is to familiarize yourself with the law in advance. Summary of local self defense law (given by police/lawyers) should be part of all of our training. Most people have very little appreciation of the nuances outside of "random mugging/kidnapping" or "crazed maniac invades my home" scenarios, which are vanishingly rare statistically. Does your locality have a duty to retreat? Stand your ground? Castle doctrine? Was your sense of the threat reasonable and imminent? Are you an "expert" in the application of violence? Was your response proportionate to the threat? Did you have other choices? There's a lot of grey.

You have to keep in mind that self-defense is an affirmative legal defense defense. To invoke it you're necessarily admitting to having engaging in an act that is otherwise illegal but for the circumstances. If you misjudge the circumstances or get caught up in the moment you could face serious consequences if the state feels like giving you a hard time.

 

[Normot]

Well in a sense, Aikido won and BJJ lost, since the Aikido guy apparently was doing something moral and brave, given his age, whereas the BJJ guy did something pathetic.
In BJJ's defense though, there are no shoratge of jack-asses in Aikido. I've met plenty of them.

Absolutely! You don't need to tell me that lol. This is just my only street fight involving a heel hook anecdote I have. No matter how pathetic it is.

 

[Esile]

I never understand the implications of a statement like your last sentence, which are always prevalent in such threads.

Is one supposed to call one's attorney in the middle of a fight? Or is one supposed to do extensive research now and tailor one's response to an eventual attack eventually?

Of course you can't call your attorney in the middle of a fight, but the latter would be a very good thing to do.
You don't need to do "extensive research" like if you want to became a lawyer, just enough to not be clueless about your local law regarding self-defense, it should not take away much free time.
With that being said, I mostly meant simply to not destroy someone's knee in a situation that's not truly dangerous and where it's avoidable, like a squarrel at a party because someone was bullying you.

 

[thehighking]

Sure why wouldn't it work if it ruins warmed up, trained fighters in a sport setting?

And btw self defense means to me that all bets are off. If someone is really trying to punch you in the head or hurt you in some parking lot, then cripple them ASAP.

I don't exactly agree with that. If I'm in a street fight I'm not going to gouge the other guys eyes out even though that would be one of the best ways to go home safe. But if a leg lock is your best chance of winning a fight then by all means.

 

[Kforcer]

I don't exactly agree with that. If I'm in a street fight I'm not going to gouge the other guys eyes out even though that would be one of the best ways to go home safe. But if a leg lock is your best chance of winning a fight then by all means.

I bet you would if it was a serial killer you'd just pulled off of an 8-year old or something. Maybe not if it was just a jerk who wanted to knock your block off, sure.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I don't exactly agree with that. If I'm in a street fight I'm not going to gouge the other guys eyes out even though that would be one of the best ways to go home safe. But if a leg lock is your best chance of winning a fight then by all means.

Between what you wrote and what that other guy wrote, too, what bugs me is that it assumes that you have some kind of choice.

If it is a real threat, and by real threat I mean that you have a real risk of getting seriously messed up, then by définition it's not like you have a catalogue of moves to choose from according to state law.

I simply think you guys are overestimating yourselves if you imagine that you will always have this luxury.

I have stayed out if trouble all of my adult life but I have seen some nasty people who I know will not hesitate to mess you up. Good luck with your catalog with such people.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Elbows to the face are authorised in combat sambo?
WTF I must be getting senile.

Headbutts, elbows, knees AND groin strikes.

 

[yetanother]

Headbutts, elbows, knees AND groin strikes.

Ahhh, groin strikes the perfect way to keep young sambo players from being distracted from their training by the pleasures of the flesh...

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Headbutts, elbows, knees AND groin strikes.

Wait sorry IDK what you are talking about but that sounds like underground / prison fights or whatever or what they call roukapachny boy in Russia.

I doubt very much that you are talking about legit combat sambo. No fucking way you can groin strikes (I am pretty sure you can't headbutt either and I am relatively certain about elbows too) in a sanctioned event with governing body, etc.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Wait sorry IDK what you are talking about but that sounds like underground / prison fights or whatever or what they call roukapachny boy in Russia.

I doubt very much that you are talking about legit combat sambo. No fucking way you can groin strikes (I am pretty sure you can't headbutt either and I am relatively certain about elbows too) in a sanctioned event with governing body, etc.

LOL!
Yes, all of the above are legal and frequently used in Combat Sambo competitions