I'm sorry, Jones is nowhere near the GOAT level

[mjmj]

How original.

 

[Small Town Andrew]

He has gone through the toughest competition without suffering a legitimate loss. Obviously sitting out during his prime years after looking like he lost a step in his last couple fights isnt good but hes already put in the work.

I figure a lot of the guys he beat were on the gas also. I wouldnt consider him the GOAT but I think he has a good argument

 

[MRT]

Lol you bought that line?

That's not how it works. If a fighter pops for roids, you have to assume even if it was just a picto, at some point he was railing that shit like they were lines of Colombian pure.

You can assume and exaggerate whatever you want...I live in the world of facts and evidence.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

He has gone through the toughest competition without suffering a legitimate loss. Obviously sitting out during his prime years after looking like he lost a step in his last couple fights isnt good but hes already put in the work.

I figure a lot of the guys he beat were on the gas also. I wouldnt consider him the GOAT but I think he has a good argument

Didn't even read the OP. You call blown up middleweights the 'toughest competition'???

 

[Adebisi]

I’m not going to get into whether Jones is the GOAT or not, it depends entirely on your stance on PEDs.

But the “bigger” than everybody shouldn’t really matter IMO. If you make weight, you make weight.

 

[MRT]

thing is, nobody knows how much that actually is
it was enough to matter to jones at the time when he felt that he needed it to fight effectively. enough to be a physical and mental crutch

Then someone should qualify their statements to make it clear that they are expressing a suspicion, likelihood, etc...rather than make a definitive statement that "he was in fact roided to the gills" (quoting the TS).

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

You can assume and exaggerate whatever you want...I live in the world of facts and evidence.

Lol... you are misinterpreting available evidence.

The facts said he popped. They don't tell us what he was taking and at what dosages and when.

When a fighter pops, obviously you have to assume they were taking the drug for performance enhancing benefits, particularly when they know the risks of popping, and even moreso after they pop multiple times.

And his athletic performance fell off a cliff when he stopped popping. How much more evidence do you need?

Some people are delusional, bless their hearts.

 

[jeff7b9]

What a totally original thread that is so very deserving of discussion...



In the wasteland.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

I’m not going to get into whether Jones is the GOAT or not, it depends entirely on your stance on PEDs.

But the “bigger” than everybody shouldn’t really matter IMO. If you make weight, you make weight.

That goes to strength of competition. Weak division = easy rise.

 

[MRT]

Lol... you are misinterpreting available evidence.

The facts said he popped. They don't tell us what he was taking and at what dosages and when.

When a fighter pops, obviously you have to assume they were taking the drug for performance enhancing benefits, particularly when they know the risks of popping, and even moreso after they pop multiple times.

And his athletic performance fell off a cliff when he stopped popping. How much more evidence do you need?

Some people are delusional, bless their hearts.

Yes, he popped...yet you then say we don't know what and how much...so how can you possibly claim "he was in fact roided to the gills"?

Maybe you don't know what "in fact" means...?

 

[BFoe]

I can't stand Jones...and I think he is a bit of a d-bag...but he was not "roided to the gills" and I don't marginalize all of his accomplishments.

Your exaggeration and misrepresentations suggest your argument is weak...because a strong argument stands on its own merits and does not require that nonsense.

He’s also popped for PCT substances. If someone needs PCT, I think we can call them “juiced to the gills.”

 

[Bob Sagat]

Then someone should qualify their statements to make it clear that they are expressing a suspicion, likelihood, etc...rather than make a definitive statement that "he was in fact roided to the gills" (quoting the TS).

I'd say it borders on tone policing, but either way I think we both understand what the other is saying

 

[MRT]

He’s also popped for PCT substances. If someone needs PCT, I think we can call them “juiced to the gills.”

When there is hard evidence that someone is 'juiced to the gills', I will grant that they are juiced to the gills.

When there is suspicion and assumption, even a good likelihood, no one should be saying "he was in fact roided to the gills", which are TS's words.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Yes, he popped...yet you then say we don't know what and how much...so how can you possibly claim "he was in fact roided to the gills"?

Maybe you don't know what "in fact" means...?

You can quibble with the words, but there was a high degree of certainty. Allstar performance when popping, anemic performances off the juice. Like night and day. That's as close to an experiment that you can get in the real world.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

U didn't read correctly. I said post-pulsing Jones, not prime (*cough* pre-USADA *cough*) Jones.

Fair enough. But I'd still take the Jones that squeaked by Santos and Reyes over anyone in LHW, currently. Jones got bored and fought to the level of his competition, as he's always done in his career. How do you think Gus did so well? He [Gus] had the fight of his career and Jon just matched him.

I get that this is a Jones hate thread, but LHW is sad right now. Even "Post-pulsing" Jon would lord over this current division without any real problems.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Didn't even read the OP. You call blown up middleweights the 'toughest competition'???

Lol. How do you explain ranking Usman above him then? He’s fought “blown up LWs.” And Machida, Rampage, Shogun, Cormier, Glover, Vitor, are all better wins than anyone Usman has beaten.

 

[Steve Fox]

Cringe af

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

although i may have articulated the post differently, i generally believe anyone who is busted for roids must not be in discussion for GOAT.

We do not have an accurate understanding of his ability to fight without PED's.

I'm curious to see him at HW and if he is clean, it will be a reflection of his skill and capability.

It's a no win situation for him in any case, but suspect he will do well at HW.

"We do not have an accurate understanding of his ability to fight without PED's"
Which fighter do you think you have an accurate understanding of his ability to fight without PED's?

 

[BFoe]

When there is hard evidence that someone is 'juiced to the gills', I will grant that they are juiced to the gills.

When there is suspicion and assumption, even a good likelihood, no one should be saying "he was in fact roided to the gills", which are TS's words.

Yes, I suppose “It’s extremely likely he was roided to the gills” would be more appropriate

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Lol. How do you explain ranking Usman above him then? He’s fought “blown up LWs.” And Machida, Rampage, Shogun, Cormier, Glover, Vitor, are all better wins than anyone Usman has beaten.

Colby is not a blown up LW. Masvidal, yes. Burns, no, since he did better at WW than LW, and he's strong and explosive for WW. Leon, not a blown up LW. So Burns and Colby are two amazing wins. Better than any of Jone's legit wins.