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Ilia has raised the bar for wrestlers

Kaiokenrye24

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Ilia has wrestling and grappling credentials, but has mastered boxing to knock out great fighters. There ain't no wrestler putting himself in harm's way against Josh Emmett for almost 5 rds. Wrestlers should take a page from Ilia's playbook lest they want to be like Grant Dawson who has to take the long road to meaningful fights and has to use cringey lines about his wife for people to want to see him fight
 
I suspect his wrestling has gotten worse, same with Islam. They just hasn’t been attacked and tested in that department since they’ve improved the their striking.

Mitchell had some success putting Ilia flat on his back, but nobody else has really tried since then.
 
I suspect his wrestling has gotten worse, same with Islam. They just hasn’t been attacked and tested in that department since they’ve improved the their striking.

Mitchell had some success putting Ilia flat on his back, but nobody else has really tried since then.

Why? Mitchell put him on his back at the very end of a round where he got his ass kicked. Nobody at FW is beating Topuria for a long time.
 
Not being sassy, legitimately curious cus I don’t know his full history - what are his grappling credentials? I know he’s a BJJ black belt and did greco roman wrestling since youth. Thing is, there’s a ton of black belts and dudes who have trained one thing or another since childhood, but people refer to Ilia’s grappling like he was a decorated wrestler or bjj champion. Additionally, Greco isn’t exactly a mat wrestling style, so having great upper body takedowns and clinch work like Greco Olympian Hendo does not automatically mean your overall wrestling is impenetrable in the way that someone like Khabib seemed.

Does he have real credentials or do you just mean he’s a great grappler? It’s not a super important distinction cus you don’t need accomplishments on paper to have the skills, but he’s being talked about like a grappling wizard who crossed over to MMA late in his career instead of a dude who started MMA at 15 and started showing solid striking by like 20 years old before his UFC run. You can see the progression in his early fights.

From what we’ve seen, he’s definitely a great grappler. Worth noting his first handful of mma wins were by sub, but most of his opponents had losing records, so that’s gotta be contextualized. It’s possible his striking has eclipsed his grappling, or at least, there’s no reason that his grappling HAS to be his greatest strength. So far he’s looked more impressive on the feet than the mat, and we haven’t seen a ton of his grappling cus HIS STRIKING has been so effective.

The only person we’ve seen him commit to all-out grappling against was Zalal, and what happened was he gassed himself out after 2.5 rounds of thoroughly out grappling Zalal while attempting a lot of subs. Against Mitchell, he got taken down and kept there for a bit, then subbed Mitchell after rocking him on the feet, on top of beating him up on the feet for most of the fight. Mitchell claimed to be terribly sick before that fight, so that might explain why a grinder like him looked SO gassed, but who the fuck knows. Either way, Ilia broke him on the feet, stuffed takedowns, hurt him standing, then tapped him out.

Against Max, he scooped him for a big takedown, and as any reasonable person expected, Max popped right back up. Not sure why some thought it was gonna be grapplefuck city if Ilia got him down, since as good as Max’s TDD is, it’s really keeping him down and doing it consistently that’s the major challenge. My hunch is that Ilia didn’t want to exhaust himself with takedowns knowing he wasn’t gonna be able to keep Max there for long.

My whole point is, do not be surprised at all if it turns out that he gasses after scrambling all night with an elite wrestler, or ends up giving up positions and looking very human on the mat. KOing Volk and Max is infinitely more impressive than dominating but gassing vs Zalal, or subbing a rocked Bryce Mitchell, though Bryce is a great grappler so that’s a still a great feat.
 
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Out of curiosity, what exactly are topuria's wrestling credentials?
Not being sassy, legitimately curious cus I don’t know his full history - what are his grappling credentials? I know he’s a BJJ black belt and did greco roman wrestling since youth. Thing is, there’s a ton of black belts and dudes who have trained one thing or another since childhood, but people refer to Ilia’s grappling like he was a decorated olympian or bjj champion. Additionally, Greco isn’t exactly a mat wrestling style, so having great upper body takedowns and clinch work like Greco Olympian Hendo does not automatically mean your overall wrestling is impenetrable in the way that someone like Khabib seemed.

Does he have real credentials or do you just mean he’s a great grappler? It’s not a super important distinction cus you don’t need accomplishments on paper to have the skills, but he’s being talked about like a grappling wizard who crossed over to MMA late in his career instead of a dude who started MMA at 15 and started showing solid striking by like 20 years old before his UFC run. You can see the progression in his early fights.

From what we’ve seen, he’s definitely a great grappler. Worth noting his first handful of mma wins were by sub, but most of his opponents had losing records, so that’s gotta be contextualized. It’s possible his striking has eclipsed his grappling, or at least, there’s no reason that his grappling HAS to be his greatest strength. So far he’s looked more impressive on the feet than the mat, and we haven’t seen a ton of his grappling cus HIS STRIKING has been so effective.

The only person we’ve seen him commit to all-out grappling against was Zalal, and what happened was he gassed himself out after 2.5 rounds of thoroughly out grappling Zalal while attempting a lot of subs. Against Mitchell, he got taken down and kept there for a bit, then subbed Mitchell after rocking him on the feet, on top of beating him up on the feet for most of the fight. Mitchell claimed to be terribly sick before that fight, so that might explain why a grinder like him looked SO gassed, but who the fuck knows. Either way, Ilia broke him on the feet, stuffed takedowns, hurt him standing, then tapped him out.

Against Max, he scooped him for a big takedown, and as any reasonable person expected, Max popped right back up. Not sure why some thought it was gonna be grapplefuck city if Ilia got him down, since as good as Max’s TDD is, it’s really keeping him down and doing it consistently that’s the major challenge. My hunch is that Ilia didn’t want to exhaust himself with takedowns knowing he wasn’t gonna be able to keep Max there for long.

My whole point is, do not be surprised at all if it turns out that he gasses after scrambling all night with an elite wrestler, or ends up giving up positions and looking very human on the mat. KOing Volk and Max is infinitely more impressive than dominating but gassing vs Zalal, or subbing a rocked Bryce Mitchell, though Bryce is a great grappler so that’s a still a great feat.
I don’t think he has notable accomplishments in wrestling except being super fucking athletic.

I think him vs Evolev is the most interesting at FW
 
Out of curiosity, what exactly are topuria's wrestling credentials?
Seriously all I’ve ever heard is that he has a background in Greco Roman wrestling but he started in Germany when he was a kid.

He’s not like Sonnen who has national championships and international competitions under his belt in Greco.

Still a great grappler tho, very fun scrambles.
 
Mitchell had some success putting Ilia flat on his back, but nobody else has really tried since then
He took him down once at the end of the round which is impressive i guess but really Mitchell was getting his ass kicked in every department.
 
Ilia has wrestling and grappling credentials, but has mastered boxing to knock out great fighters. There ain't no wrestler putting himself in harm's way against Josh Emmett for almost 5 rds. Wrestlers should take a page from Ilia's playbook lest they want to be like Grant Dawson who has to take the long road to meaningful fights and has to use cringey lines about his wife for people to want to see him fight

He's also raised the bar for people unashamedly pretending to be a nationality that they aren't....
 
Just like Alex Pereira, Topuria has shocked the world facing guys that are just accepting to fight on his terms and at his game
Just as Jan gave a tough fight to Alex I believe Evloev would give a difficult night to Topuria
 
I suspect his wrestling has gotten worse, same with Islam. They just hasn’t been attacked and tested in that department since they’ve improved the their striking.

Mitchell had some success putting Ilia flat on his back, but nobody else has really tried since then.
Wrestling credentials and MMA wrestling are two different things. I same the same thing you did against Bryce. I would trust more in Islam's grappling than Ilia's. He has a room full of Dagestani's to keep him honest. Your general point stands IMO though, when a fighter concentrates on striking, a lot of times their grappling becomes rusty.
 
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