If you live in Broward County, Fl don't wait for the police to save you

[funcrusher2007]

Professional pollsters like the Gallup deliberately sample from the broad range to avoid this; polling people from all geographies, races, genders, and earning levels to avoid skewed polls.

Fair points. As a summary,what I’ve learned in this thread..

My views on police are complex but I have a lot more to learn and for that thank you. Nothing makes me happier then re reading some of my posts and saying to myself “hmmm I didn’t think this through” in short I really like being educated.

 

[MicroBrew]

Actually, that serves no purpose whatsoever and just solicits death threats and harassments that their families will have to deal with as well. Remove them from their current positions and make sure that their service record reflects the reason for their termination. There was opportunity for them to attempt to redeem their actions by going in with the other officers. By choosing not to do so they only compounded the grievance against them. Additionally, having failed in such a spectacular fashion when children were in danger there is really isn't a way for them to redeem themselves in the eyes of their community. Who would trust them to not freeze again? Who would trust them enough to place the safety of themselves and their families in the hands of these officers?

Well what was the point of naming and shaming the Captain of Costa Concordia? Or any number of folks who say or do stuff that is widely considered douchey.

Naming and shaming, would give other policemen pause for thought on acting cowardly. At the very least, they will think twice about accepting such positions if they don't think they can perform.

 

[AznTrojan]

lol.. broward county officers..

 

[sangreporsangre]

Click on that tweet to read the whole thread. If that's all legit it's pretty damning.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Just wanted to get home to their families.

Not being cheeky this time, I totally get it. If I only had a pistol I wouldn't like my chances against a kid with an AR-15.

Then again if you're a cop at a school seems like this scenario is exactly what you're there for so if you're not going to intervene why be there at all?

None of the deputies had shotguns in their cruisers?!

None had a rifle?!

I find that hard to believe.

 

[Seaside]

Just wanted to get home to their families.

Not being cheeky this time, I totally get it. If I only had a pistol I wouldn't like my chances against a kid with an AR-15.

Then again if you're a cop at a school seems like this scenario is exactly what you're there for so if you're not going to intervene why be there at all?

dont these guys have bulletproof vests? and is it not true that most school shooters kill themselves or give up when confronted? i have not followed the story but what made the shooter stop?

and when i see movies american police always have bulletvest on and a handgun and rifles or shotguns. so i am confused dont they have a automatic or shotgun in there car? maybe cops should be armed with ar15

 

[Mark Cutting]

Your definition of Accountability is wrong(I know your being sarcastic)

Accountability..when they fuck up,they take responsibility.

Getting a worse rep... by America. Maybe southern Cali is different then where you live but police aren’t really looked up to here anymore..they are civil servants ..we don’t cop worship to be more specific.

I am a general foreman/Superintedant of commercial construction...my last project was a criminal justice center and scenario lab,I work with police dept a lot. ...I’m not a cop,I don’t pretend to know the specifics of there job but I am smart enough to know that , over militarized police have become a problem in this country for along time..it isn’t a white /black issue for me .

it’s a authoritarian one.

Civil rights violations
Bad shoots/tax payer paid settlements
Civil forfeiture
Prison for profit
Over bloated Police unions

coward cops.

All that shit stinks, that doesn’t make me anti cop on a individual level though..I look at police the same way I do military..I respect the player most the time but hate the game.


Also..to clarify.

I have some serious respect for good Leo’s (which I’m smart enough to know make up the majority) . My best friend is San Bernardino detective. I know what they go through.

Accountability for bad police/dept/etc. should be something all good police officers champion .

In fact there voice should be the loudest.

I didn't even offer my opinion on what I believe accountability entails. How could I be wrong ?

The term "militarization" is a nothing more than a buzz word usually trotted out by people with little knowledge on the subject. No offense.

Also, until you've been a policeman; or any job you haven't done first hand, you don't know what one goes through.

I was a union Ironworker in Stl for 4 years before I left. I don't even presume to know what a foreman or project manager "goes through."

But my initial point was why do you think you're the arbiter of what constitutes alleged police misconduct issues when you've no first hand experience and very little, if any, knowledge on police procedures ? That isn't a personal swipe at you. it's a legit question.

It's no different than some boob driving by a job site wondering why a bunch of laborers are "leaning on brooms" watching concrete dry then pulling the ol' "lazy union guys" bullshit. They've no idea what they're looking at, but they sure have an opinion. See what I'm getting at ? And I'm willing to listen to any difference of opinion provided it's reasonable and grounded in reality.

Cheers

 

[Mark Cutting]

None of the deputies had shotguns in their cruisers?!

None had a rifle?!

I find that hard to believe.

A few years back; 6 or 7, we had no shotguns and no patrol rifles in our cars in St Louis city. we had a 9mm Storm carbine.

 

[Mark Cutting]

Fair points. As a summary,what I’ve learned in this thread..

My views on police are complex but I have a lot more to learn and for that thank you. Nothing makes me happier then re reading some of my posts and saying to myself “hmmm I didn’t think this through” in short I really like being educated.

Right on. My same outlook. I've been "educated" plenty of times and actually appreciate it. I don't have a fragile go.

 

[Islam Imamate]

None of the deputies had shotguns in their cruisers?!

None had a rifle?!

I find that hard to believe.

I think not based off the fact that they had their pistols drawn. I figure if they had something else they would've grabbed it.

dont these guys have bulletproof vests? and is it not true that most school shooters kill themselves or give up when confronted? i have not followed the story but what made the shooter stop?

and when i see movies american police always have bulletvest on and a handgun and rifles or shotguns. so i am confused dont they have a automatic or shotgun in there car? maybe cops should be armed with ar15

Bullet proof vests don't protect you from rifle rounds.

 

[Mark Cutting]

I think not based off the fact that they had their pistols drawn. I figure if they had something else they would've grabbed it.

Bullet proof vests don't protect you from rifle rounds.

when I was at the ABB active shooter we had 9mm carbines called Storms. Absolutely overwhelmingly outgunned by the suspect. He had an AK 47, a 270, iirc and a .45.

ABB is a massive complex. Some corridors are over 100 yards long. SWAT had to be called out, then stage, then op plan. By that time he had committed suicide.

 

[KnightTemplar]

lol.. broward county officers..

That's an unfair comparison. Murtaugh would have gone into that school armed with his damn six-shot revolver

 

[Mark Cutting]

That's an unfair comparison. Murtaugh would have gone into that school armed with his damn six-shot revolver

And a smoke grenade

 

[KnightTemplar]

dont these guys have bulletproof vests? and is it not true that most school shooters kill themselves or give up when confronted? i have not followed the story but what made the shooter stop?

and when i see movies american police always have bulletvest on and a handgun and rifles or shotguns. so i am confused dont they have a automatic or shotgun in there car? maybe cops should be armed with ar15

He dropped his weapons, took off his gas mask and mingled with the students as they were escaping. In the smoke and confusion he managed to get out of the area. Little bastard didn't even have the guts to kill himself. Cops picked him up a couple of hours later.

 

[FacePunch]

Bullet proof vests don't protect you from rifle rounds.

Oh yes they do.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Oh yes they do.

I was always under the impression they don't in fact I'm certain that was the case before though maybe they have better ones nowadays.

 

[TSO]

Lol. It's racist to imply that there are some things about America that white people, in general, are just becoming aware of?

Is it also racist to say that white people drive like this, but black people drive like this ?

You mean you're echoing what white people have been saying in this forum for years and pretending its something only you colored folk know?

 

[Mark Cutting]

I was always under the impression they don't in fact I'm certain that was the case before though maybe they have better ones nowadays.

Bulletproof Vest Rating
NIJ specifications rating I, IIA, II, IIIA, III and IV are the standardized ratings that bulletproof vests come with. These ratings describe the type of bullets that each will stop. Vests rated as type III (3) and type IV (4) are suitable to defend against rifle bullets and they use armor plates. Any bullet proof vest that you purchase should clearly state what its rating is and if it does not then it is not advisable to purchase it. These helpful facts are things that you should consider if you are purchasing a bullet proof vest. You will truly purchase the right one for your situation if you consider the size, rating, materials, and style of vest that meets your needs.

 

[Teppodama]

Well what was the point of naming and shaming the Captain of Costa Concordia? Or any number of folks who say or do stuff that is widely considered douchey.

Naming and shaming, would give other policemen pause for thought on acting cowardly. At the very least, they will think twice about accepting such positions if they don't think they can perform.

Because you perpetuate the creation of victims of this event. In this instance, the families of these officers who had nothing to do with what occurred but will end up sharing in the harassment and potential threats of violence.

Unless you believe in an eye for eye and think these officers families deserve to be subjected to what is likely to occur?

Something else to remember, while their actions may have been a betrayal of the authority invested in them and the perception of what their duty was, they weren't the one that shot those kids. They were just another link in a series of failures that allowed that kid to do what he did.

I don't agree with their choice, in fact I'm fairly disgusted with it, but I don't think their families need to suffer for it with them and that's exactly what will happen as focus is taken away from the actual culprit in an understandable desire for retribution and understanding of how and why it occurred.

Prediction: If their names are released not only will they likely see a veritable campaign of threats and recriminations against them, but the stress and likely regrets of their choice will eventually lead to at least one of them becoming an alcoholic, likely lead to a divorce of at least one of them due to the fall out and potentially one of them eating their pistol depending on how they deal with the aftermath.

 

[Seaside]

I think not based off the fact that they had their pistols drawn. I figure if they had something else they would've grabbed it.

Bullet proof vests don't protect you from rifle rounds.

some do if they have plate in it. military guys wear them

level 3 armor stop many rifle rounds.

https://welikeshooting.com/blog/can-bullet-proof-vests-stop/

when I was at the ABB active shooter we had 9mm carbines called Storms. Absolutely overwhelmingly outgunned by the suspect. He had an AK 47, a 270, iirc and a .45.

ABB is a massive complex. Some corridors are over 100 yards long. SWAT had to be called out, then stage, then op plan. By that time he had committed suicide.

what is ABB?