If top boxers learned TDD like Adesanya and Cro Cop. How will they fare in MMA?

[jeff7b9]

If they just learned takedown defense.

Bloody brilliant...

Reminds me of people who watch MMA and say shit like "he should just stand up, I would just stand up."

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

People forget, developing good TDD is just as a hard, as a wrestler developing respectble boxing skills.

I definitely disagree. I wrestled in high school, have trained boxing for many years, and I've also trained MMA. The casual MMA fan doesn't understand much of what TDD actually consists of. They mostly just equate it with sprawling. While sprawling is an integral aspect it's still only a single line of defense. You're right though that there's a lot more to TDD than simply developing a decent sprawl. For example, TDD also consists of framing/posting to block or redirect takedown attempts, rolling escapes (ie., granby roll, peterson roll, wrist roll), breaking grips, scrambling, pummeling, threatening with standing guillotine choke counters, limp leg escapes, popping whizzers, digging for underhooks to elevate an opponent and stop their shot's momentum, etc.

However, while takedown defense requires the ability to defend against both clinch-based takedown attempts and takedown attempts from a distance, the basics can be picked up fairly quickly. Serviceable TDD in MMA is possible to achieve within a couple years, or slightly less, if routinely drilling the techniques that I listed above. This is definitely not true for learning the basic fundamentals of boxing. Think about it a little more carefully to understand why. In developing TDD in MMA you only have to learn a subset of wrestling techniques (defensive techniques) in order to remain upright or scramble back up to your feet. In learning the basics of boxing it requires developing both one's offense and defense (along with proper footwork and fundamentally sound punching technique).

 

[Phill]

Slipping and weaving is literally most of head movement but ok.

You end up out of the way of the strike most often and back to your base. Especially when it's done properly (aka from the hips and knees, not the back, so your eyes stay on your opponent). Aldo routinely uses slips, and Kyogi Horiguchi frequently uses weaves. I think you're way overestimating how easy it is to land a headkick, let alone on moving target. It's much easier to land punches at that point, yet you slipping and weaving is still a thing in boxing and most striking sports.

It's definitely more boxing than muay thai. Hes' never fought in muay thai, and his best weapons are his jab, counterpunching and overall defensive acumen. He also trains with boxing teams, not a muay thai team. You'll notice his best performances are built off basic boxing, with leg kicks coming after sometimes.

Also you realize muay thai and boxing frequently overlap, as shown by the several muay thai folks who have become boxing champs?

Hey buddy, did you see the Cruz and Usman fights?
<Lmaoo>

 

[avenue94]

Hey buddy, did you see the Cruz and Usman fights?
<Lmaoo>

Yes? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Just like any other technique, offensive or defensive. Not to mention Cruz's slip was horrible amd took his eyes off his opponent.

Are you trying to tell me Usman should have just eaten left hands all nght and forgone head movement completely?

 

[Phill]

Yes? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Just like any other technique, offensive or defensive. Not to mention Cruz's slip was horrible amd took his eyes off his opponent.

Are you trying to tell me Usman should have just eaten left hands all nght and forgone head movement completely?

You miss the point; the reason you see weaving more in boxing than in MT, Kickboxing, and MMA is because you risk weaving in to a kick. That was the entire point being discussed. Two big fights in two consecutive cards that prove it. Keep watching the sport.

 

[avenue94]

You miss the point; the reason you see weaving more in boxing than in MT, Kickboxing, and MMA is because you risk weaving in to a kick. That was the entire point being discussed. Two big fights in two consecutive cards that prove it. Keep watching the sport.

And? No one is saying it's 1 to 1, but most fighters would stand to benefit from more head movement than less.

I also see you neglect to mention Aldo, who fought earlier on the card, barely took any damage due to his head movement. It's almost like your cherry picking only fights that suit your narrative.

 

[Phill]

And? No one is saying it's 1 to 1, but most fighters would stand to benefit from more head movement than less.

I also see you neglect to mention Aldo, who fought earlier on the card, barely took any damage due to his head movement. It's almost like your cherry picking only fights that suit your narrative.

Re-read the thread and the posts you were making because you're clearly still not getting it. Tbh, I didn't catch the Aldo fight tonight, but you're crazy if you think I'm cherry picking fights. This is legit the reason you see more weaving in boxing than combat sports with kicks, the more you watch, the more you'll see. Or if you step in to an MMA gym and actually spar.

Cheers.

 

[avenue94]

Re-read the thread and the posts you were making because you're clearly still not getting it. Tbh, I didn't catch the Aldo fight tonight, but you're crazy if you think I'm cherry picking fights. This is legit the reason you see more weaving in boxing than combat sports with kicks, the more you watch, the more you'll see. Or if you step in to an MMA gym and actually spar.

Cheers.

My argument was more head movement would benefit most fighters most of the time in mma. That's it. Don't think that's a particularly controversial opinion.

And yes, it's literally the definition of cherry picking. Notice how you bring up 2 instances of fighters losing by head kicks but don't consider that, for example, tonight several other fighters loss either by stoppage or decision due to an inability to get their head out of the way of strikes, be it through head movement or any other means.

This is called confirmation bias.

 

[Phill]

My argument was more head movement would benefit most fighters most of the time in mma. That's it. Don't think that's a particularly controversial opinion.

And yes, it's literally the definition of cherry picking. Notice how you bring up 2 instances of fighters losing by head kicks but don't consider that, for example, tonight several other fighters loss either by stoppage or decision due to an inability to get their head out of the way of strikes, be it through head movement or any other means.

This is called confirmation bias.

Revisionist. Re-read your own posts. It's would be just as easy to call you out on confirmation bias since you're literally discrediting the evidence right in front of you.
You're also presenting a false dichotomy; the context here was regarding weaving not happening as much because you often weave into a kick. That doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't weave is impervious to getting knocked out.

Keep watching the sport, join an MMA gym and spar, you'll pick up on a lot more over time.

 

[avenue94]

Revisionist. Re-read your own posts. It's would be just as easy to call you out on confirmation bias since you're literally discrediting the evidence right in front of you.
You're also presenting a false dichotomy; the context here was regarding weaving not happening as much because you often weave into a kick. That doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't weave is impervious to getting knocked out.

You end up out of the way of the strike most often and back to your base. Especially when it's done properly (aka from the hips and knees, not the back, so your eyes stay on your opponent). Aldo routinely uses slips, and Kyogi Horiguchi frequently uses weaves. I think you're way overestimating how easy it is to land a headkick, let alone on moving target. It's much easier to land punches at that point, yet you slipping and weaving is still a thing in boxing and most striking sports.

I have no idea what you're going on about or why you felt the need to necro a thread to assuage a fragile ego, but you do you. See my original post above, and the bolded part. It's the same as I said before, head movement will work most of the time and most mma fighters would benefit from more head movement most of the time.

 

[Phill]

I have no idea what you're going on about or why you felt the need to necro a thread to assuage a fragile ego, but you do you. See my original post above, and the bolded part. It's the same as I said before, head movement will work most of the time and most mma fighters would benefit from more head movement most of the time.

I can tell you have no idea.
The bolded part in your post is literally wrong, hence the discussion.
Head movement =/= weaving.
It's hard to forget when someone is so grossly wrong and off base. Not to mention that I don't post much and generally have a good memory.
Speaking of assuaging a fragile ego, you're good for a guaranteed reply every time.