If Izzy were to tie or pass Anderson's record at MW...

[HHJ]

If we are talking at MW,I think Izzy is beating tougher guys than Anderson fought. He may not do it as impressivley as Anderson did,but I dont think Anderson would have such an easy time w the likes of Whittaker,Yoel,Costa etc.

 

[HHJ]

Silva at LHW looked unbeatable
Israel at LHW looked subpar compared to MW.

Jan is like three times better than anyone Anderson fought at LHW,excepting DC of course,but Anderson got dominated there anyway

 

[cooks1]

I don't think we should count Anderson's pre UFC run as part of his UFC GOAT MW resume or his MW resume at all when Izzy addressing the question of when does Izzy pass him.

I mean fine, if we do but then his losses from that time frame are all in too. Takase and Chonan loss do more to harm that run then the rest helps it.

I would stick to just his UFC run, if I wanted to make Anderson look best.

And I am guessing you have never peaked at how substantial a career Izzy had before the UFC as he had almost 50 fights prior in both MMA and Kickboxing.

And again it would be ridiculous to give Anderson a lot more credit for a 'defense' against Cote or Lutter while saying Izzy's wins over Anderson and Vettori, Brunson etc don't count because Anderson came in when the MW was painfully weak and thus got his title shot in his second fight, whereas Izzy faced a much deeper division and thus had to beat many other top guys first.

No way Izzy should need the same amount defenses. and saying he would need more is just fan boy crazy.

Happy to give Izzy as much credit for his kickboxing as I would any fighter for accomplishment in another art. He was certainly no Cejudo, Fedor or Werdum, but it's noteworthy. But at the end of the day, I do not use it to measure greatness as an MMA fighter.

Comparing Izzy's pre UFC MMA ledger to Anderson's is completely nonsensical and a non-starter. A victory over a bloated Melvin Guillard in back end of a 0-9-1 stretch is his most noteworthy accomplishment.

No matter how you care to slice it, Izzy has a long way to go before he should be spoken in the same sentence with Anderson.

 

[lefthighkick01]

... a lot of discussions would talk about how Anderson had 3 LHW fights (and won them all) as Izzy had just one and lost.

Anderson's wins at LHW were James Irvin (14-4 by the time he fought Anderson), Griffin (16-5, former LHW champ) and Bonnar (15-7).

Meanwhile, Izzy fought and lost to Blachowicz (27-8 and LHW champion when they fought).

Even thought they both fought former champions in Griffin and Jan, none of those champions were regarded as anything special and none held on to their title for long.

So with that in mind, how do their LHW opponents compare? Would you rather fight Irvin, Griffin and Bonnar or Jan?

all you have to ask yourself is, would Prime Anderson go to a decision against Rob Whittaker? lol

I love Whittaker but Prime Anderson would murder him... while Izzy wins a close decision....

 

[VitorReem]

He’s not and will never be as good as Andy. At anything.

 

[Portland8242]

3 fights in a row now I've been completely unimpressed with Adesanya's boxing. For a guy with a mega long reach who's very fast and technical, I don't know how he can't land his jab on anyone. Not a combination puncher either.

Silva seemed sooo much more dangerous with his hands than Izzy ever did.

 

[pankrat]

I don't live my life for Whataboutism as you do.

There is no denying the depth of mental issues Forrest was dealing with after losing to Rashad and him turning to drugs to try and deal with them. He was an emotional and mental mess, and that is true even if other fighters at points in time (as I am sure some are) are also dealing with big issues.

One eye dude, Bisping had one fucking eye.

The difference is I dont get in a thread about GSP/Usman and start to discredit GSP for beating Bisping with one eye with a punch coming from his blind side.

You are that kind of pathetic loser, but with alleged "depression" which is even more lame.

Try as hard as you can to downplay Silva's competition with finght finder and other classic GSP fanboy nerd efforts. It was of comparable caliber than GSP's, which explain this:

Sherdog p4p rankings durig GSP championship years
2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

*Keep in mind rankings in sherdog are made by pundits, not ignorant, pathetic fanboys of your kind who gather in sherdog forum to push cringe, biased narrative

"Griffin was depressed"

 

[pankrat]

yeah, every time someone loses a decision you can argue they actually won.....

I think diaz and kos were better than many of silva's opponents for sure.

gsp had a tougher schedule. people don't move up and down all the time either. with that mindset, why didnt silva just go and fight jon jones?

If you dont watch fights, and just read results on fight finder is not my issue.
Even the American people in attendance booed the decision in favour of the American fighter. The commentators disagreed as well. The faces of both fighters was a testament too. Even Shields looked surprised.

If you dont know, you dont know.
Let alone you watching Lister vs Arona, another very controversial dec, yet here you are pretending you know shit with a quick search in fight finder lol


GSP might have the tougher schedule, Silva also has more defenses. So at the end of the day, both beat similar caliber of competition. The difference, even if you GSP fanboys refuse to acknowledge it, was the quality of performance, rather than the quality of competition.

Which is the reason for this in case you were not aware:

Sherdog p4p rankings durig GSP championship years
2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

 

[GUY]

Would I rather lose a dec to Jan or beat Ervin, Griffin and Bonnor all by stoppage? Tough one

I guess the point is more that Israel would also beat those guys and Anderson would also lose to Jan

 

[GUY]

8. If he can get past Cannonier, maybe strickland, maybe his kickboxing rival perriera. Thats a wrap IMO

add in Khamzat and a LHW contender and that's it

 

[pankrat]

I guess the point is more that Israel would also beat those guys and Anderson would also lose to Jan

Yeah but who swallows that?

Jan would not be favoured to beat prime Silva, and the much bigger Griffin would have a legit chance of outgrappling Israel, or at least making it way more competitive than he did vs Silva

 

[RockyLockridge]

add in Khamzat and a LHW contender and that's it

I think khamzat should stay a WW

 

[Mark McMichael]

Happy to give Izzy as much credit for his kickboxing as I would any fighter for accomplishment in another art. He was certainly no Cejudo, Fedor or Werdum, but it's noteworthy. But at the end of the day, I do not use it to measure greatness as an MMA fighter.

Comparing Izzy's pre UFC MMA ledger to Anderson's is completely nonsensical and a non-starter. A victory over a bloated Melvin Guillard in back end of a 0-9-1 stretch is his most noteworthy accomplishment.

No matter how you care to slice it, Izzy has a long way to go before he should be spoken in the same sentence with Anderson.

Sure, ignore the kickboxing and he still has a good MMA resume pre UFC which you seem to ignore.

Ok you say Melvin Guillard is not a great win but it is better than losing to Chonan and Takase, isn't it?

Once again you seem only focused on one side of the ledger. Izzy was undefeated while Anderson was losing to cans. He has 4 losses in pre UFC run and Izzy has 0 losses. So how do we offset that?

And sure, no one is saying Izzy is there yet. So we don't need that strawman here. The question was how many defenses would he need to be in the discussion?

Your view that Izzy needs more defenses than Anderson is pretty crazy and seemingly alone, as most recognize that Anderson getting his title shot in only his second UFC fight, due to the division being so weak, and thus having almost all his fights qualify as defenses gave him a huge boost.

I think everyone but you, would say Izzy needs less defenses but the question is how many less?

 

[Mark McMichael]

Yeah but who swallows that?

Jan would not be favoured to beat prime Silva, and the much bigger Griffin would have a legit chance of outgrappling Israel, or at least making it way more competitive than he did vs Silva

I think Jan is every bit the threat to Prime Anderson that Weidman was.

His threat of putting Anderson on his back and then delivering serious GnP would severely limit Anderson's striking and need to bait and show boat. I would not put Anderson as the favorite but he certainly would not be a big dog either.

I also agree Forrest would have a chance if he tried to out grapple Izzy. It would be the same chance he had to beat Anderson had he been set on grappling him instead of getting baited into striking. Both Anderson and Izzy beat Forrest if he is striking. Both of them probably lose if Forrest went with a grappling heavy game plan.

 

[ThunderStruck]

I dont get the point of the thread but just for the record, Silva beat Jeremy Horn in an openweight bout.

Silva weighted in at 185lbs. Horn did at 200lbs. Horn fought Liddell for the UFC LHW belt soon after.

Horn is a tiny LHW by today's standard.

 

[ThunderStruck]

. Hendo was literally the reigning PRIDE 183 pound champion going into the Anderson fight

That doesnt mean shit cause he had lost his last fight at 183 against Misaki. It just wasn't for the belt.

 

[pankrat]

That doesnt mean shit cause he had lost his last fight at 183 against Misaki. It just wasn't for the belt.

This is just you showing one more time you have no clue about the context of MMA back then.

Hendo was regarded as the Pride MW champ. Get educated and stop trying to revision history

 

[pankrat]

Horn is a tiny LHW by today's standard.

Just like many LHW tittle challengers in Jones early championship run. The fact of the matter is that Horn was still credible enough to fight for the UFC LHW belt even after losing to Silva.

Anyways, if you werent a blind fanboy you would have noticed that in the post you replied I also especified each other weight for the bout. Anderson was a tiny MW by today standards (how is that the pathetic fanboy doesnt point this?) and beat the LHW tittle challenger Horn in 15lbs dissadvantage.

 

[VAfan]

anderson's LHW fights meant nothing, they can pretty much be disregarded. they were 3 of the most cherrypicked fights of all time. if you took the juice out of the equation, you'd say that anderson was still way ahead in the debate anyway, but with it - meh, i guess there's a discussion to be had.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Just like many LHW tittle challengers in Jones early championship run. The fact of the matter is that Horn was still credible enough to fight for the UFC LHW belt even after losing to Silva.

Anyways, if you werent a blind fanboy you would have noticed that in the post you replied I also especified each other weight for the bout. Anderson was a tiny MW by today standards (how is that the pathetic fanboy doesnt point this?) and beat the LHW tittle challenger Horn in 15lbs dissadvantage.

205+ isnt a tiny MW by today's standards. Put down the crack pipe, kiddo.