If Adesanya win the LHW title

kekiss said:
Goat debates starts every time someone have good run in division, i for one think people needs to relax on that, he is still miles behind Andy achievement wise in MW , but he have all the right tools to get them. Double champ is becoming more of a gimmick now, and the guy who wins tittle in both divisions ends up leaving one anyway, and messing up original were he fought , Conor, GSP, TJ (koed by midget and caught juicing)
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See the problem with this is you are judging accomplishments in just one weight class to try and judge GOAT. Double champ isn't a gimmick, fighters understand what it means for their legacy if they are able to achieve it. So more are trying to do so. It's not a gimmick and is still one of the hardest things to do as a fighter. There are weight classes for a reason, and most casuals don't understand the added strength, power, and durability that comes from higher weight classes.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
i get that. but what about guys like DC? he's clearly not better than Jon Jones but he's a double champ compared to Jon. how would you rate them?
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Dc is interesting case , and would have been a dominant champ in HW in he wasn’t Cains friend back in the day. Bones is much better fighter and resume wises beats DC, and John still can become one, that is if he will fight someone at HW, so far only twitter talk
 
The gap of 185 to 205 is the biggest in mma so it may carry a bit more weight
 
FIghtxIQ said:
See the problem with this is you are judging accomplishments in just one weight class to try and judge GOAT. Double champ isn't a gimmick, fighters understand what it means for their legacy if they are able to achieve it. So more are trying to do so. It's not a gimmick and is still one of the hardest things to do as a fighter. There are weight classes for a reason, and most casuals don't understand the added strength, power, and durability that comes from higher weight classes.
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There is only one case when someone beat best fighter in division to become one, and it was DC, at this moment it clearly doesn’t say much and fighter only challenges for double champ status when there is favourable matchup waiting, GSP never would’ve fought Romero, Rockhold or Conor Khabib if those guys were champs, so for me it is unnecessary division messing and doesn’t prove anything if you just jump at occasion to get that shit, and also, Aldo would’ve been double champ 100%, but ufc didn’t allow that shit back in day
 
He's fighting a stand-in LHW Champion, who has ZERO title defenses.


I'm glad for Jan to be banking this big pay day... he's a great guy, but he's not the best LHW on the planet.


And please, there are UFC fighters with 10+ wins in Championship Fights... Let's not throw guys into GOAT chats just because they win 3 or 4 Championship fights.
 
kekiss said:
There is only one case when someone beat best fighter in division to become one, and it was DC, at this moment it clearly doesn’t say much and fighter only challenges for double champ status when there is favourable matchup waiting, GSP never would’ve fought Romero, Rockhold or Conor Khabib if those guys were champs, so for me it is unnecessary division messing and doesn’t prove anything if you just jump at occasion to get that shit, and also, Aldo would’ve been double champ 100%, but ufc didn’t allow that shit back in day
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Of course there are measurements with double champ status considering who they beat for it. But still it's an accomplishment regardless of who you fought because you beat another champion from another division and not just a challenger. Of course there will be talks if the belt was vacated/stripped prior etc compared to someone that got it from a current defending champion. But that metric is only used to judge vs other double champs. Because double champ is still an accomplishment that very few fighters have been able to do.

GSP still beat Bisping, and regardless how people feel about Bisping he won the title and defended it. People use that fight to discredit GSP's win but Bisping was still the legit defending champion at the time. I think the bigger issues are belts being won after being stripped or vacated. Because those aren't won from a current defending champion. So they would be ranked lower when judging double champs - but if they are able to defend it after than it becomes a moot point because of the title defenses.
 
FIghtxIQ said:
Of course there are measurements with double champ status considering who they beat for it. But still it's an accomplishment regardless of who you fought because you beat another champion from another division and not just a challenger. Of course there will be talks if the belt was vacated/stripped prior etc compared to someone that got it from a current defending champion. But that metric is only used to judge vs other double champs. Because double champ is still an accomplishment that very few fighters have been able to do.

GSP still beat Bisping, and regardless how people feel about Bisping he won the title and defended it. People use that fight to discredit GSP's win but Bisping was still the legit defending champion at the time. I think the bigger issues are belts being won after being stripped or vacated. Because those aren't won from a current defending champion. So they would be ranked lower when judging double champs - but if they are able to defend it after than it becomes a moot point because of the title defenses.
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Yeah, what Bisping did is modern day Cinderella man story, and giving us GOAT press conference afterwards. Also agreed about stripped belts , good point
 
FIghtxIQ said:
I think too many focus on longevity to judge GOAT instead of just accomplishments and fighting ability when they are at their best/prime. You can be a top fighter for 10 years but if a fighter has better accomplishments and is viewed at as more skilled prime vs prime and did it all under 5 years I would still consider them the GOAT. Time in shouldn't be a major criteria in judging GOATs. It should be skillset and accomplishments.
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I don't agree, but that's a matter of opinion. I mean, you are talking about the greatest talent, the fighter with objectively the best skillset. I personally find a ten year reign in a division way more impressive than a fighter that has a few great years. Tjat longjevity makes them the greatest imo. If Adesanya keeps on winning for a few more years, he will definitely climb up the GOAT ladders for me
 
weaselkenievil said:
It’s pretty hard not to put him in the conversation after that. Double champ is a huge achievement. Regardless of situation, who you fought, it puts you in the conversation.
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If he doesn't defend that LHW title it is meaningless.

Especially since the LHW champion he will have beaten would not have been able to successfully defend that title.

If he defends against the #1 contender then absolutely put him in the GOAT discussion. But if he cherry picks a non-active fighter like Cejudo did? Hell no
 
ehxsur said:
is he already in the GOAT debate?

He cleaned his division at speed of light, he already have nothing to proove in MW.

His only bad note was his fight against Romero. But he won anyway.

For me, if he became double champ, defend at least once at LHW, and beat Jones at LHW or HW, he is the new undisputed GOAT.
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This is a very well crafted Khabib debate if you’re a chess player.
 
Fight Glover Teixeira. Someone who actually wants to wrestle. See how well he does
 
It would put him in the conversation for GOAT but he really needs that fight with Jones to solidify that legacy. I still think we will see that fight one day even with Jones at HW. I could see him coming back at LHW sometime in the future.
 
weaselkenievil said:
Again, fair point. This goat talk is all over the show, almost impossible to quantify and agree on. Jon Jones is clearly better than DC at LHW, but DC deserves to be in the conversation but he’ll never be the goat. Again it’s a bullshit conversation really, what I’m saying for goat you have a top ten and number one in our opinion, all I’m saying is DC ranks there. Like Izzy if he won at multiple weights. Ain’t the goat by a long stretch but that puts him in the conversation. I’m drunk, I may be rambling.
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Jon is better with Peds. I would bet money on DC if he juiced too.
 
Absolutely not.
  1. It's hard to win a belt, but the easiest thing is to not defend after winning it (Conor).
  2. It's a lot harder to defend it for years against multiple generations of new up-and-comers (Aldo, GSP, Jones, Silva, DJ).
Israel is smack dab in the middle of those 2 categories.

Winning at 205 will be impressive, and splashy. But not as impressive as winning at 185 for the next 5 years (a lot less splashy).

And frankly, it's too bad that so many new fans are so mesmerized by the splashy. It's like Dana knows what he's doing, and they've bought in hook, line and sinker.
 
Mammothman said:
The Vettori asterik is still right there
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not an asterisk when he already beat him which happened early in his UFC career. That was only his second UFC fight, the fight was close but no where does it warrant a robbery etc.

He is still undefeated in MMA and is the only champ to be undefeated....
 
kekiss said:
There is only one case when someone beat best fighter in division to become one, and it was DC, at this moment it clearly doesn’t say much and fighter only challenges for double champ status when there is favourable matchup waiting, GSP never would’ve fought Romero, Rockhold or Conor Khabib if those guys were champs, so for me it is unnecessary division messing and doesn’t prove anything if you just jump at occasion to get that shit, and also, Aldo would’ve been double champ 100%, but ufc didn’t allow that shit back in day
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Penn beat Hughes and Couture beat Sylvia.
 
Sherdog wants everyone to be goat.
 
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