Ido talking about not training with vegans

[RoyJonesJr]

They are really really fucking annoying. They are like those hardcore religious people that go out of there way to tell everyone there religion lol.

Usually they also develop this weird sense of moral superiority. After many months of not getting proper nutrition they start looking like skeletors and get a wierd tone on there skin. My coworker knew someone that went Vegan and also swears that they start smelling wierd too.

Furthermore most quit the Vegan diet after a while due to serious health issues. Heres a random example: Miley Cyrus “I was vegan for a very long time and I’ve had to introduce fish and omegas into my life because my brain wasn’t functioning properly,” she said. Miley said she also was having intense hip pain that she thinks was due to her vegan diet.” Cyrus is 28 years lol she should not be having hip pain like that.

Its a shit diet based off feelings more than anything. A proper diet is an omnivore diet that is a mix of animal proteins, grain, vegetables etc. Humans are fundamentally built to be omnivores. Its not even a controversial thing, science backs that consistently but people always fall for the new age dumbass diets constantly.

The Jehovah witnesses of food

I see it

 

[Iron Nick]

The Jehovah witnesses of food

I see it

The way i see it, the vegans like me ITT, are defending their way of life and argue for it just like the omnivorous people do, except that several people on one side ITT have been condescending, in some cases vulgar and continue to use flawed lines of reasoning, though obviously not with malicious intent.

If you've seen the majority of this thread, you should be able to see which side has more people on it that are like this and i want to make it clear here that *not all* people on that side behave like that, at least when it comes to the their tone.

 

[Iron Nick]

How does more agriculture mean less pesticides? And ultimately you would still need animals for fertilizer, no?

Regarding the fertilizer, i admittedly don't know, but i'll look into that.

Veganism wouldn't require more agriculture though - the opposite is true; with the vast part of our population eating animals, we need:

• plants (and thus farmland) to feed the farm animals (which feed us)
  
• plants (and thus farmland) to feed us

The thing is, that feeding farm animals in order to feed us, is highly ineffective, because you need a lot of plants to feed even a single animal for a lifetime until it's slaughtered, only for several kilos/pounds of meat, whereas if you'd have used the farmland which originally fed the animal to harvest things humans could directly eat, you'd be far more effective and would need a fraction of the resources.

This is a german graphic, so i'll explain it to you:
Worldwide biomass of tetrapod vertebrates:
Farm animals: 65%
Humans: 32%
Wild animals: 3%

...so the mass of all farm animals is literally twice the mass of all humans, which is why it goes without pulling the calculator out, that using farmland to directly feed us blows our current model with factory farming out of the water when it comes to effectivity and responsible use of resources.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Yet you strawwomaning hard honey bun. Your debating skills is off the charts, into uncharted retard territory.

calling out the inability to make a proper distinction is straw manning?

 

[Deleted member 577981]

lab grown meat is an emerging technology that i think will make most of this conversation unnecessary. they can already grow meat and as that tech gets established i think we will stop killing animals to get food and not have to compromise on the health aspects of the debate.

 

[Iron Nick]

Tell me 10 athletes amongst millions of vegan athletes that look and perform like the pinnacle omnivores do

Soccer, for several reasons, is the highest level sport in the world and there are quite a few vegan players at the very highest level, so there'll be a few soccer players in this list.

• Hector Bellerin soccer player, notorious for being absurdly fast
• Novak Djokovic, tennis player
  
• Lewis Hamilton, formula 1 race driver
• Derrick Morgan, american football player (NFL)
  
• Scott Jurek, ultramarathoner
  Spoiler: his accomplishments

  • Held United States record for 24-hour distance on all surfaces (165.7 miles/266.01 kilometers) from 2010 to 2012.
  • Won the Spartathlon 153-mile (246 km) race from Athens to Sparta, Greece three consecutive times (2006–2008).
  • Won the Hardrock Hundred Mile Endurance Run (2007), and held the record until 2008.
  • Won the Western States Endurance Run seven consecutive times (1999–2005), and held the record time (15:36:27 in 2004) until 2010
  • Won the Badwater Ultramarathon twice (2005, 2006), and held the course record for two years (2005).
  • Finished first three times (2002–2004) and second three times (2001, 2005, 2006) in the Miwok 100K Trail Race.
  • Won the Leona Divide 50 Mile Run [fr] four times (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004).
  • Won the Diez Vista 50K Trail Run twice (2000, 2003).
  • Won the Montrail Ultra Cup series twice (2002, 2003).
  • Selected as UltraRunning Magazine's North American Male Ultrarunner of the Year in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2007.
  • Set the speed record for completing the Appalachian Trail (approx. 2,200 miles) in 46 days, 8 hours, and 7 minutes in 2015.
• David Haye, boxer
  
• Kendrick Farris, olympic weightlifter
• Patrik Baboumian, strongman
• Alex Morgan, soccer player
• JaVale McGee, basketball player (NBA)
• Kyrie Irving, basketball player (NBA)
• Michael Porter Jr., basketball player (NBA)
  
• (Serge Gnabry isn't vegan, but he only rarely eats animals products, so they can't be credited for his performance - like Bellerin, he's exceptionally fast, agile and also very explosive.)

...obviously there are more, but you requested 10 and i gave you (more than) enough, so you can still use google to find some more.
Want to know what most, if not all of them got in common?
Their report about recovering faster and having less inflammation in their bodies after switching to a vegan diet.

 

[spinup]

Then they are not vegan dude

You can't be 97% vegan

No hominid is vegan. Not a single one. Many ruminants also indulge in meat.

Who cares...
If you eat 97% vegetal food, nutrition wise, it makes no difference with being vegan.

 

[MescalineDreams]

I think you've got it wrong, the people who judge what to decide with the animals are the ones who directly enslave, torture and kill these Animals, the people who are payed to do so, subsidised to do so..

Why must they have a purpose? Most animals on the planet don't directly benefit you, why do you think the Chicken is for the human? Why can't the chicken be for the chicken?

Local and Independent farms are not a solution either for the 8Billion people on the planet, besides all farms are "local" to someone ... If you have an idea to solve it that beats Veganism then it has to be consistent for everyone.

Neither option is particularly ideal. Factory farms or veganism.

But when you have 8 billion people, this is the result.

Maybe it's possible to find a middle point

If someone who takes a B12 pill isn't a "true vegan" than anyone who's omnivours and drinks a protein shake isn't a "true omnivorous person" either.
That being said, this line of reasoning of yours doesn't really make sense, sorry.

Personally i've been vegan for years and i'm fine.
I also did a marathon in june with lots of elevation and without specific training, meaning that i did run frequently, but usually distances between 5-10 kilometres (3.1-6.2 miles, whereas a marathon is 42.2 kilometres (26.2 miles).

Yeah veganism is the goat diet for endurance. Probably nothing better. Not really so much other sports. Genetically speaking, some seem to do well on it. Better than others. I think they're more the exception than the rule when it comes to athletes though. The vast majority are omnivores.

From what I've seen just being in and around these diet cultures for over a decade, many people are very healthy on a vegan diet for 5+ years. It's more so long term they seem to run into various issues.

I think Dan McDonald is probably the best example of someone who is almost entirely vegan who's been doing it for decades. But he also consumes royal jelly, blue green algae, tonic herbs from various systems and his overall supplement game is truly elite.

Theres a few long term examples but a really high percentage fun into issues long term and that's predominantly where you need to worry and take extra precautions.

I'm personally moving more in the direction of vegetarianism because theres such a long history of it.

India domesticated the cow as a means of freeing their peoples from the karmic implications of consuming death. It allowed them to acquire what they felt was necessary nutrition from animals without having to kill them. Which is one of the reasons the cow is considered sacred.

I dont see any moral issue with consuming high quality grass fed goat milk. Or even eggs, on a personal level.

But, at the end of the day we do diets for more than just having the absolute perfect health. The biggest benefits to veganism are spiritual imo.

These are just my thoughts though. We all have different perceptions of truth and that's perfectly okay. I personally enjoy being surrounded by people with an extremely diverse set of principles and beliefs lol

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Ido is a piece of shit.

And I'm not even vegan.

 

[Swarthy]

Love how Vegans need to take suppliments to give them the nutrients that meat gives hahahahaha

 

[MescalineDreams]

Soccer, for several reasons, is the highest level sport in the world and there are quite a few vegan players at the very highest level, so there'll be a few soccer players in this list.

• Hector Bellerin soccer player, notorious for being absurdly fast
• Novak Djokovic, tennis player
  
• Lewis Hamilton, formula 1 race driver
• Derrick Morgan, american football player (NFL)
  
• Scott Jurek, ultramarathoner
  Spoiler: his accomplishments

  • Held United States record for 24-hour distance on all surfaces (165.7 miles/266.01 kilometers) from 2010 to 2012.
  • Won the Spartathlon 153-mile (246 km) race from Athens to Sparta, Greece three consecutive times (2006–2008).
  • Won the Hardrock Hundred Mile Endurance Run (2007), and held the record until 2008.
  • Won the Western States Endurance Run seven consecutive times (1999–2005), and held the record time (15:36:27 in 2004) until 2010
  • Won the Badwater Ultramarathon twice (2005, 2006), and held the course record for two years (2005).
  • Finished first three times (2002–2004) and second three times (2001, 2005, 2006) in the Miwok 100K Trail Race.
  • Won the Leona Divide 50 Mile Run [fr] four times (2000, 2001, 2002, 2004).
  • Won the Diez Vista 50K Trail Run twice (2000, 2003).
  • Won the Montrail Ultra Cup series twice (2002, 2003).
  • Selected as UltraRunning Magazine's North American Male Ultrarunner of the Year in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2007.
  • Set the speed record for completing the Appalachian Trail (approx. 2,200 miles) in 46 days, 8 hours, and 7 minutes in 2015.
• David Haye, boxer
  
• Kendrick Farris, olympic weightlifter
• Patrik Baboumian, strongman
• Alex Morgan, soccer player
• JaVale McGee, basketball player (NBA)
• Kyrie Irving, basketball player (NBA)
• Michael Porter Jr., basketball player (NBA)
  
• (Serge Gnabry isn't vegan, but he only rarely eats animals products, so they can't be credited for his performance - like Bellerin, he's exceptionally fast, agile and also very explosive.)

...obviously there are more, but you requested 10 and i gave you (more than) enough, so you can still use google to find some more.
Want to know what most, if not all of them got in common?
Their report about recovering faster and having less inflammation in their bodies after switching to a vegan diet.

I've seen the exact opposite though. Quite a few friends are athletes who switched to a vegan diet and found their recovery from injuries and exercise was really poor. As was their ability to put on muscle.

I think theres some nuance to be taking into account here though. We often apply a one size fits all mentality when it comes to diet but the reality is, we are so vastly different genetically, ancestrally and that needs to be taken into account.

Some do a lot better on it than others. Others can't do it at all. There's a huge variation.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Love how Vegans need to take suppliments to give them the nutrients that meat gives hahahahaha

 

[Jose Beehive]

Neither option is particularly ideal. Factory farms or veganism.

But when you have 8 billion people, this is the result.

Maybe it's possible to find a middle point

I think the animals used would strongly believe one is more ideal than the other.

People will still be fishing the oceans when theres 2 fish left, would rather buy oxygen than let the planet create it naturally(Yet Ironically nature is so many peoples reasoning for wanting to eat animals). It will take losing the option to stop it completely imo, be that via law or depletion.

I just can't see it, unless it's only available for rich people, or people are happy to convert to lab grown meat.. If it's treated with the same mentality as Vaccinations, then i'd imagine some folks would still rather have the cruel option.

 

[HaulParris]

To each their own

 

[RedFoxNdisBihhh]

dont know why but i really wanna see a Vegan on the juice now


for research purposes of course

 

[PunchKicker]

calling out the inability to make a proper distinction is straw manning?

Yet you never made any distinction on what was wrong with my post, Dr StrawGirl.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Yet you never made any distinction on what was wrong with my post, Dr StrawGirl.

that it made no distinctions and generalized to the point of idiocy. now go back and read said post and make some distinctions bud.

 

[PunchKicker]

No, there's nothing that suggests that plants are conscious and feel pain at all and even if they did, consuming animal products inevitably requires many times the amount of plants that a vegan diet does, because the farm animals need to be fed as well.

So why is it killing plants is ok but killing animals for food isn't? You rationalize that killing plants isn't as bad as killing animals, so killing plants is A ok. Plants are absolutely conscious. Plenty of time lapse video footage showing plants reacting to its environment. Being aware and reactive is the definition of conscious. But again you rationalize that plants are ok to kill since animals require food too. Also meat is an integral part of human history and humans consuming meat will never go away, unless the meat source does. Guess all you vegan cucks got your canine teeth removed too? fuckin hypocrites.

 

[Iron Nick]

So why is it killing plants is ok but killing animals for food isn't? You rationalize that killing plants isn't as bad as killing animals, so killing plants is A ok. Plants are absolutely conscious. Plenty of time lapse video footage showing plants reacting to its environment. Being aware and reactive is the definition of conscious. But again you rationalize that plants are ok to kill since animals require food too. Also meat is an integral part of human history and humans consuming meat will never go away, unless the meat source does. Guess all you vegan cucks got your canine teeth removed too? fuckin hypocrites.

Again, no.
There's nothing in the world of science, especially no consensus that states or suggests plants have a consciousness/are aware, stop spreading lies.
But even if they did, FAR less plants would net to be "killed" in order to support a vegan diet than it is the case with an omnivorous diet.

"Meat is an integral part of human history" if you're trying to frame this as some kind of argument, then let me tell you that just because things have occured in the past, that it doesn't mean they're thus justified or inevitably bound to our future.
Slavery, but also rape and murder have played enormous roles in human history too, yet no one would derive from that that these things are morally acceptable just because they were a part of our past, so miss me with your fallacious way of argueing.

Last but not least, our "canines" are absolutely useless and even in primates, they're used for battle, not for killing prey.


Stay triggered, my friend.

 

[Iron Nick]

Neither option is particularly ideal. Factory farms or veganism.

But when you have 8 billion people, this is the result.

Maybe it's possible to find a middle point

Yeah veganism is the goat diet for endurance. Probably nothing better. Not really so much other sports. Genetically speaking, some seem to do well on it. Better than others. I think they're more the exception than the rule when it comes to athletes though. The vast majority are omnivores.

From what I've seen just being in and around these diet cultures for over a decade, many people are very healthy on a vegan diet for 5+ years. It's more so long term they seem to run into various issues.

I think Dan McDonald is probably the best example of someone who is almost entirely vegan who's been doing it for decades. But he also consumes royal jelly, blue green algae, tonic herbs from various systems and his overall supplement game is truly elite.

Theres a few long term examples but a really high percentage fun into issues long term and that's predominantly where you need to worry and take extra precautions.

I'm personally moving more in the direction of vegetarianism because theres such a long history of it.

India domesticated the cow as a means of freeing their peoples from the karmic implications of consuming death. It allowed them to acquire what they felt was necessary nutrition from animals without having to kill them. Which is one of the reasons the cow is considered sacred.

I dont see any moral issue with consuming high quality grass fed goat milk. Or even eggs, on a personal level.

But, at the end of the day we do diets for more than just having the absolute perfect health. The biggest benefits to veganism are spiritual imo.

These are just my thoughts though. We all have different perceptions of truth and that's perfectly okay. I personally enjoy being surrounded by people with an extremely diverse set of principles and beliefs lol

I've seen the exact opposite though. Quite a few friends are athletes who switched to a vegan diet and found their recovery from injuries and exercise was really poor. As was their ability to put on muscle.

I think theres some nuance to be taking into account here though. We often apply a one size fits all mentality when it comes to diet but the reality is, we are so vastly different genetically, ancestrally and that needs to be taken into account.

Some do a lot better on it than others. Others can't do it at all. There's a huge variation.

I have to disagree with it being that dependant on genetics for most people, even though i'm sure it does play role - i just disagree about the extent to which it does/doesn't.

As i have shown in my other posts, various institutes consider a vegan diet to be absolutely healthy - if planned right, of course.
In regards to your friends having made bad experiences, i believe you, but have to ask if you're sure that they did everything right in regards to nutrition, especially when comes to vitamin b-12, omega-3 fatty acids (so DHA and EPA), zinc, iodine, selenium, iron, vitamin b-2 and calcium?

Now i come off as a smart ass lmao, sorry, i can't expect you to know this, but i personally assume they had a deficiency somewhere (btw, i've listed them with the most important ones coming first in descending order, but they're all important).

I think i agree though with veganism having slight benefits in performance when it comes to endurance and all cardiovascular related things, while having slight drawbacks when it comes to building muscle, since on average, the best animal proteins have a slightly better amino acid profile (i hope that's the correct english term for it) than the best plant proteins do.
(Although any food should in my eyes not just be measured by a single metric).

personally i've got no comparison to what it feels like to consume animal products while being serious with sports, so i can't talk on that, but in general i feel really good from a physical standpoint.
A friend of mine switched to a vegan diet and didn't notice any difference at all - both his diet before and after going vegan was thoroughly planned, so i didn't really expect anything else.

Would you mind elaborating on the spiritual benefits of veganism? I'm admittedly not spiritual, but i'm interested in your input, as i try to be open when it comes to these topics.