I was lead to believe that being short/stocky with low center of gravity is better ..

[OmegaRugal]

... for wrestling and takedowns.

Now I understand that MMA wrestling is a bit different due to strikes but overall why EXACTLY is Jon Jones able to outwrestle guys like Cormier so well?

Cormier has better credentials, has the right build that is suppose to be superior but yet in the clinch, it was clear that Jon Jones had better leverage on him using his height. Jones more times than not had Cormier pushed into the fence when experts thought this is where Cormier would have the advantage.

So ... is this theory that low center of gravity is superior false for wrestling?
Jones has very skinny legs with a huge upper body and extremely long arms. He seemed to be able to keep his legs away from Cormier's reach in the clinch while he was more easily able to get deep double legs on Cormier thanks to his reach.

So far the only person Jones has struggled with takedowns was a guy with little to no wrestling background but was closer to his size in Alexander Gustaffason.

Thoughts?

 

[SteelHammer]

I think maybe when squaring off in a real wrestling match, stockiness is better, but when you can lean on your opponent with strikes (the strikes keep them from countering as they normally would), it's a different story. But, I'm not sure.

 

[doyourkegles22]

...MMA wrestling is a bit different due to strikes...

Your answer.

 

[magick]

MMA=/=Greco-Roman Wrestling=/=Judo=/=BJJ.

We've had countless examples where people who have had an outstanding performance in a certain combat sport not perform as well in MMA or some other sport. Conversely, some people do transition well.

I don't know why people are making threads about how this is a sudden revelation with Cormier.

In any case, it's very difficult to throw/take-down someone who is leaning over heavily. Very difficult to establish control over their weight and gain proper leverage to do anything. That's why people sprawl when someone attempts a single/double-leg TD on them.

 

[Burke72]

Some of the best guys i wrestled were lanky technical guys that had wicked tdd and sprawl and could hit cradles off them at will. I love how people are quick to forget that Jones wasn't a schmuck in his short lived wrestling career before making the jump to mma

 

[Sexy Pants]

Some of the best guys i wrestled were lanky technical guys that had wicked tdd and sprawl and could hit cradles off them at will. I love how people are quick to forget that Jones wasn't a schmuck in his short lived wrestling career before making the jump to mma

Didn't Jones get a ride to Iowa, but choose to go to a Junior College?

 

[beeran1]

I'm no wrestling expert, but Jones was able get much better penetration than DC, even on the TDs that DC stuffed, whereas DC could never get in close.

 

[OmegaRugal]

I'm no wrestling expert, but Jones was able get much better penetration than DC, even on the TDs that DC stuffed, whereas DC could never get in close.

That's what I mean. Even without the knees. It just seems so much easier for Jones to get deep doubles on Cormier's small legs.


While Cormier's small arms could never get deep for a double on Jone due to how far apart Jones legs were.

Cormier's had to settle for a single and even if he liftit high ... Jones was still standing due to his long legs.

It just seems like Jones' body is better for wrestling.

 

[Chungungo]

I think in Judo and Wrestling is more common, the russian Cormier was training with is my size and used to wrestle in 96 kg , Illiadis is also 1,78-1,80 and fight in -90 in Judo where he throws almost any taller guy you put in front of him but for MMA and Muay Thai being long helps for clinch and wrestling with strikes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1ibYxx49I

 

[JohnSouth]

Cormier's striking was better than his wrestling, should have stuck with that.

I'm honestly amazed that people think being so and so wrestler makes that much of a difference.

It's really hard to hit those takedowns on other wrestlers so it's important to have a few good skills but the entire sport of wrestling is not so important.

Most of wrestling is completely useless in MMA so I'm at a bit of a loss why some kind of "pedigree" makes any kind of difference.

The most important thing is the other guy can't take YOU down and your striking, not so much how good your takedowns are.

Cormier's only shot to win this fight was out striking Jones, which he did for much of the fight.

He's got good hands and good defense but he got tied up at the end playing the wrong game.

 

[magick]

He's got good hands and good defense but he got tied up at the end playing the wrong game.

I think he started gassing hard in the 3rd round, felt humiliated by the 4th round, and decided to attempt to hit at least one take-down against Jones in the 5th round because he felt that he couldn't win the fight anymore.

I honestly think the fight was going his way up until the eye-poke, and he was in great position to do something when he had Jones on the ground at the end of the 2nd round. Pity that it happened right when the bell rang...

 

[SFCFighter]

Jones took DC down off a caught kick and off the fence..

When you shoot a double leg on someone in a wrestling match, they can sprawl or move their feet back. Against the fence they cannot do that and it makes it way easier to take someone down. The correct defense is to spread your legs apart so they can't lock their hands. This isn't the way you defend double legs in wrestling.

 

[dmwalking]

It's still true that being short and stocky is better for shots. But it means nothing if you're not able to get under their hips. If you rewatch the fight, Jones prevented double underhooks for most of the fight. That prevented Cormier from using his lower center of gravity. Jones did a good job of neutralizing Cormier's options.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Has nothing to do with body type.

Jones has a much higher pedigree of fence wrestling and wrestling with strikes than DC does. He has had years of experience over him in this. A freestyle wrestling match would be a different story.

 

[wstewart]

I'm honestly amazed that people think being so and so wrestler makes that much of a difference.

I'm amazed that people are acting like Daniel Cormier came into the fight with nothing but olympic wrestling experience. Not saying he is or should be as good as Jones with his experience but the way people talk, they make it sound like this was his first mma fight or something. He's managed to go undefeated for his last 15 mma fights without losing a round or being taken down at all.

 

[EndlessCritic]

perhaps because the people saying all these things are pencil necked dweebs on the internet who think that if they were just a bit stockier, they'd know how to fight.

 

[peregrine]

Has nothing to do with body type.

Jones has a much higher pedigree of fence wrestling and wrestling with strikes than DC does. He has had years of experience over him in this. A freestyle wrestling match would be a different story.

This was going to be my answer.
The height+fence+fence experience.

Add strikes.

 

[peregrine]

Most of wrestling is completely useless in MMA so I'm at a bit of a loss why some kind of "pedigree" makes any kind of difference.

The most important thing is the other guy can't take YOU down and your striking, not so much how good your takedowns are.

Sacrilege

 

[Einarr]

Footsweeps, trips, leg throws, upperbody throws favor the taller man. Shooting, knee/ankle picks, double legs favor the shorter man.

 

[Bubblun]

i don't think Jones outwrestled Cormier, he just took him down against the cage.

when you put your opponent against the cage and clasp your hands behind his butt it's a 99% sure takedown.
Jones is so long that it is really easy for him to casp his hands.

wrestling from the open it's a different story.
Jones had hard time shooting low.