I don't understand why nog is ranked higher than Cro cop on all time lists

FierceHitman

FierceHitman

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Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way:

Yes, I do hold a favouritism towards Cro cop, as evidenced by my avatar, but I'm a fan of all pride guys in general as well, so I have nothing against nog.

Yes, nog did have a win over him. An epic comeback indeed, and a win that should count a lot towards his legacy. But let's not Struve-Miocic the situation now.

Let's contextualize some stuff.

He beat a green Cro cop who was just as lost on the ground at the time as Ngannou is now. He had improved tremendously since then.

If we look at common opponents, Cro cop looked a lot more impressive in his fights than nog did in his.

Bob Sapp beat the breaks off nog before the (awesome) armbar.
DqUrUVw.gif


Cro cop on the other hand destroyed Sapp:
luhjDI.gif



More common opponents:

Coleman- Nog had to work for that triangle whereas Cro cop laid him out with ease. Coleman couldn't even take him down.

Fedor- yes they both lost to him, but let's look at how those fights actually went down. Fedor famously bounced Nogs head off the canvas and won with ease. Cro cop on the other hand left Fedor looking like this:

fedor.jpg


There are other common opponents, also which Cro cop beat more soundly, like Barnett and Herring.

Yet Nog is constantly ranked higher. I really don't get it. I wasn't much of a forum user back in those days so I don't know the consensus here, but amongst the crowd I discussed MMA with it was Fedor and Cro cop on top by far. It was practically a given that nog stood with very little chance of beating Cro cop in a rematch. And when it came to the 3 it went:

Fedor
Cro Cop
Nog
 
It's kind of a toss up between them i guess... but Nog was always loved for taking HUGE beatings and still win. It was just his way of fighting, he didn't seem to care.

From 1999 to 2006 he had about 25 fights and only lost to Hendo and Fedor (twice). He was an absolute monster.

And since it is a toss up, his win against Mirko might be the deciding factor.. so i have to give it to Nog personally.

<Fedor23>
 
I think they are both extremely overrated.
 
Compares a kickboxing match against Sapp to an MMA match against Sapp.

Nothing to see here, folks.
 
i did the research once, and Nog spent something like 10.9 out of 11 years in the top 3 (Barnett knocked him out of it shortly). he was undisputed #1 until the first Fedor fight, and then top 3 until the Mir fight.

CroCop was an extraordinary fighter. and since most fans prefer standup & KO's over grappling & subs, he's more of a fan fav and certainly more of a highlight reel.

but what Nog accomplished over his career was rivaled by and topped only by Fedor.
 
Yeah no...

I'll take the guy who won belt in both UFC and Pride
(I'm not gonna take the guy who got Ko'd by Schaub...)

Big Nog got wins over

Couture
Hendo
Timmeh
Barnett
Werdum
Kharitonov
CRO COP
Coleman
Schilt

Pretty fckng impressive
 
FierceHitman said:
Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way:

Yes, I do hold a favouritism towards Cro cop, as evidenced by my avatar, but I'm a fan of all pride guys in general as well, so I have nothing against nog.

Yes, nog did have a win over him. An epic comeback indeed, and a win that should count a lot towards his legacy. But let's not Struve-Miocic the situation now.

Let's contextualize some stuff.

He beat a green Cro cop who was just as lost on the ground at the time as Ngannou is now. He had improved tremendously since then.

If we look at common opponents, Cro cop looked a lot more impressive in his fights than nog did in his.

Bob Sapp beat the breaks off nog before the (awesome) armbar.
DqUrUVw.gif


Cro cop on the other hand destroyed Sapp:
luhjDI.gif



More common opponents:

Coleman- Nog had to work for that triangle whereas Cro cop laid him out with ease. Coleman couldn't even take him down.

Fedor- yes they both lost to him, but let's look at how those fights actually went down. Fedor famously bounced Nogs head off the canvas and won with ease. Cro cop on the other hand left Fedor looking like this:

fedor.jpg


There are other common opponents, also which Cro cop beat more soundly, like Barnett and Herring.

Yet Nog is constantly ranked higher. I really don't get it. I wasn't much of a forum user back in those days so I don't know the consensus here, but amongst the crowd I discussed MMA with it was Fedor and Cro cop on top by far. It was practically a given that nog stood with very little chance of beating Cro cop in a rematch. And when it came to the 3 it went:

Fedor
Cro Cop
Nog
Click to expand...


I agree with you. Big Nog was tough as hell, but made a name off of taking massive beatings, before pulling victory from the jaws of defeat.

People will tell you that Crocop lost to Randleman, but Randleman was probably the most physically talented HW fighter in Pride, who could beat any HW on any given night.

Your list is the same as mine.

Fedor
Crocop
Nog
 
nether of those 2 are in the top 5 all time... so who cares ??
 
Nog was the #1 heavyweight in the world for a significant period of time, that can't be said of Cro Cop
 
BJ@LW&WW said:
for one, nog never popped
Click to expand...

Neither did MIrko, but who cares about facts when their narrative is more important?
Mirko told the UFC that he took something to heal and then was tested while it came back clean.
 
Cro Cop was never the top HW in the world. Nog was for a while. He also spent longer near the top of the rankings.

I’d say it’s not much of a debate, Nog seems to have had the better MMA career.
 
Nog basically dominated HW for the best part of a decade besides losing to Fedor, he dropped a close decision to Barnett and a for me clearly wrong decision to Hendo but beat both in rematches plus beat Mirko, Sergei, Semmy, Coleman, Sylvia, Ricco, Werdum, Herring x 3, Sapp and an absolute ton of compy good enough to potentially upset him.
 
Big Nog was worshipped in Japan.

Plus he was known for being in brutal battles and coming back and winning. He then became very well rounded being lethal on the ground and standing.
 
I rate Nog higher because 1) he won head to head, and 2) during their respective primes, he beat more great fighters and lost to fewer mediocre ones.

Who are their best wins?
Nogueira: Couture, Sylvia, and Barnett were all Top 5 heavyweights at the time he beat them. Ricco and Kharitonov were probably Top 10 at the time he beat them. Other notable wins would include Cro Cop, Coleman, and Herring (x3)
Cro Cop: He absolutely had Barnett's number, no argument there. But after that? His best historic wins are over blown-up 205ers like Roided Wanderlei and Vovchanchyn.

Who are their worst losses (during their prime)?
Nogueira: Losing to Fedor twice, Mir twice (the second time arguably after he was on his downward slide) and a shitty decision loss to Hendo in RINGS. No shame there. Fedor and Hendo are two of the six or seven greatest fighters ever, and Mir is an all time great HW who just had Nog's number.
Cro Cop: No shame in losing to Fedor, Nog, or Hunt, but he got KOed by Kevin Randleman, one of the worst technical strikers in MMA history. Being "the last guy Randleman ever knocked down" is not a great distinction. Then he ended up getting splattered for the ages by Gabriel Gonzaga, who ended up being just a "pretty good heavyweight."
 
When you look at Mirko's career of course you do need to consider he spent a good part of his prime in K-1, might not have won the WGP but did pick up plenty of big wins including Aerts, Bernardo, JLB, Remy, Sapp and Hunt. Honestly I felt he probably beat(or at elast drew with) Hug and Bajrami as well which would give him a very strong winning record for that era.
 
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