How visiting India broke my soul (PS: Very long and rambling post)

Wow that was fascinating but very sad to read at the same time. I have never been to India or anywhere in Asia, and I didn't know it was like that there. Very interesting read and thanks for sharing.
 
After a 30 hour flight (long stop over in Brussels), I am finally home from a 2 week stay in India. It was my first time visiting the country, and the trip itself was one part work related (I was visiting electronic waste dumping grounds) and one part personal (I was taking my mother to visit the birthplace of her grandfather).

I am trying not to view my experiences through an ethnocentric western lens - I recognize that values, customs and norms vary significantly across cultures. I am also no stranger to seeing poverty, my work has sent me to places with truly abhorrent living conditions. Heck, my parents are from a 3rd world country in the Caribbean.

With all of that in mind, NOTHING could prepare me for what I saw/experienced. I don't even know where to begin, but my impression of the country can be summarized in two words: Chaotic and Intense.

I stopped in Mumbai, Varanasi, Allahabad, and Faizabad during my stay. Mumbai was easily the most developed of the cities, with the more affluent areas mirroring anything you would see in Canada/United States. I was staying in a really nice hotel close to the Airport, and my very first thought was "This isn't bad at all".... until I ventured out into the surrounding area.

My first stop was the Dharavi slums, where a significant % of the world's electronic waste is processed. It is the second largest slum in the world, and has the highest population density of anywhere on earth (1.5m people in about 2 squared kilometers). The environmental and safety conditions were deplorable, people were melting down plastics with no safety equipment - the air stunk of solder, and I could barely squeeze down dirty alleys full of brackish water and open wires. With that being said, everybody there was extremely friendly, and the children seemed happy and curious. Not once did anyone ask me for money, and I left with a positive impression of the people (but not of the area).

When I was telling my cab driver of the experience, he said something curious "Those aren't the real slums sir, the real slums are behind the airport". Curiosity got the best of me and I asked him to drive by - literally right behind the hotel I was staying, there were people living out in the open where the government had bulldozed a squatter settlement. Men, woman and children just sitting on the ground in the insane heat, some begging and others trying to sell random wares to passing cars etc.

Against the drivers wishes, I got out of the car and gave money to a woman with a baby. I was instantly swarmed, and emptied my pockets of whatever rupees I had. The driver recommended that if I wanted to help, give them food instead, because the men will simply take the money from the woman/children and spend it on alcohol.

The next day, I asked the same driver to take me to a grocery store where I bought 20kg each of rice, dhal and black eyed peas, and asked him to help me distribute it. I genuinely meant well, but the entire situation backfired again. Within minutes of stopping the car, we were swarmed again. A sea of hands, some of them children, begging for whatever they could get. Some families took more, while others got nothing. Truthfully, I was sort of just paralyzed in the moment and gave out whatever was in the bag until I ran out. When there was no food left, we (the driver and I) were yelled and sworn at. He took the brunt of it, because they accused him of wanting to steal the food for himself.

I went back to my hotel room and wept. I don't exactly know what I expected to happen, but I felt completely ineffectual - whatever I gave was simply a drop in an ocean of need.

My mom and I flew out to Varanasi on the second leg of our trip. I am not going to write at length about the experience other than it was wretched - from the way starving stray dogs lay dying in the open, to smog so thick that I felt my lungs were on fire, the only saving grace was a boat tour of the ganjees. That was really beautiful, but I almost got into a fight with another Canadian, because he was messing around with one of the local kids who was selling lota flowers.

The guy and his friends were trying to bargain the kid down to 2 rupees down from 5 - keep in mind, that is literally fractions of a penny in CAD. When the kid said no, the tourist told him to do something funny to entertain him and his friends, and maybe then he would give him the money. I saw red and told him to stop fucking around with the kid. I was fully prepared to throw down until the boat tour intervened and separated our groups.

On a random note, India has managed to commodify almost every aspect of an entire religion (Hinduism). While I don't subscribe to any organized religion, I went to the Golden Temple, where so called spiritual men demanded money at every turn to pay hommage to some God, who could either bless/curse me depending on my level of generosity. It was incredibly cult like, and whatever vestige of Hindusim I had left in me died that day.

I toured where the three rivers converge into the Ganjees. Along the "beach", there were children in rags baked black by the sun, collecting cow dung to turn into fuel for cooking. I later found out that the people there were considered Chamar (the lowest caste) and it looked like a UNICEF commercial being played out in real time. How anyone can survive in those conditions seems almost unfathonable, much less find a way to escape their poverty.

There were countless of other heartbreaking sites and experiences, all speaking to a country still very much hung up on caste, status, perceived worth of people etc. This anecdote probably helps illustrate life in India for the poor. My driver for the time that I was Mumbai was named Raju - he was a wonderful person that I got to know well during my trip, and he treated my mom as though she were his own (helping her walk down the street, holding her hand through traffic etc). He told me how he lives in the slums, and how he never had a chance at education, but that he wants his kids to have a better life. He mentioned off hand that he was struggling to pay their school fees, but never did he ask for anything. In fact, he initially refused his tip because I had agreed to pay a flat rate for each day.

On my last day (I had to return to Mumbai to fly back to Canada), I told him that if I couldn't help the situation as a whole, I would like to make a difference in one persons life, so I offered to pay his kids school fees indefinitely (It is hardly a grand gesture, it amounts to about $300CAD per year). He declined and told me "Sir, I have cheated you. My name is not Raju, it is Mohammed. I use the name Raju so people think he is hindu, otherwise they may not want to hire me". He cried as he told me this, because he legitimately felt as though he had betrayed my trust.

Given that I couldn't give a rat's ass about what religion a man is or isn't, I told him that it didn't matter to me, and the offer still stands. He cried, my mom and I cried, and I left India never wanting to return, but finding some measure of solace in that I could help one family. I chose to pay the fees more so out of guilt than anything - I live a life of undeserved luxury and I felt like I was doing something wrong looking into the daily struggles of peoples lives as a tourist, and then flying back to Canada.

Why am I telling you all of this? In part, it is because I wanted to get it off of my chest and remind people that we should be so grateful we get to call Canada/America home. Also, I wanted to share a personal story about why education is so important, both to myself and on the whole.

The same people I am describing above (the poorly educated laborers in the slums) was where my family came from three generations ago. I never met my grandparents, but from what I know, they were field hands that the British forced into indentured labor and brought over to Guyana in the early 1900s. My paternal grandfather was orphaned at 7, and my maternal grandmother was illiterate.

But in a strange twist of fate, Guyana was one of the few British colonies where school was free for everyone (boys and girls) and my parents had the opportunity to attend. Both were dirt poor (literal sense, the floors made of dirt and the roofs of zinc), but through the power of education, both excelled, received scholarships, and went on to university in Canada. Both are retired now, my mom was a teacher for almost 40 years and my father was a professor for 33 (since I was born).

I am who I am because of my parents. To think that within such a short period of time, my ancestors went from living in the slums of Allahabad to being white collar professionals, all because they had access to education.

Education is both a right and privilege - every child should have access to it, but they need to appreciate what it can do when taken earnestly. It is a vehicle for social mobility, and I hope that one day Raju's children can share their story about how going to school allowed them to reach such great heights.


I read every thing. This is eye opening I have read about it in some books how impoverished some people in India can be.


But its quite different to read it from a first hand experience like your story.


Your story should be made into a short film or documentary. I will watch it
 
After a 30 hour flight (long stop over in Brussels), I am finally home from a 2 week stay in India. It was my first time visiting the country, and the trip itself was one part work related (I was visiting electronic waste dumping grounds) and one part personal (I was taking my mother to visit the birthplace of her grandfather).

I am trying not to view my experiences through an ethnocentric western lens - I recognize that values, customs and norms vary significantly across cultures. I am also no stranger to seeing poverty, my work has sent me to places with truly abhorrent living conditions. Heck, my parents are from a 3rd world country in the Caribbean.

With all of that in mind, NOTHING could prepare me for what I saw/experienced. I don't even know where to begin, but my impression of the country can be summarized in two words: Chaotic and Intense.

I stopped in Mumbai, Varanasi, Allahabad, and Faizabad during my stay. Mumbai was easily the most developed of the cities, with the more affluent areas mirroring anything you would see in Canada/United States. I was staying in a really nice hotel close to the Airport, and my very first thought was "This isn't bad at all".... until I ventured out into the surrounding area.

My first stop was the Dharavi slums, where a significant % of the world's electronic waste is processed. It is the second largest slum in the world, and has the highest population density of anywhere on earth (1.5m people in about 2 squared kilometers). The environmental and safety conditions were deplorable, people were melting down plastics with no safety equipment - the air stunk of solder, and I could barely squeeze down dirty alleys full of brackish water and open wires. With that being said, everybody there was extremely friendly, and the children seemed happy and curious. Not once did anyone ask me for money, and I left with a positive impression of the people (but not of the area).

When I was telling my cab driver of the experience, he said something curious "Those aren't the real slums sir, the real slums are behind the airport". Curiosity got the best of me and I asked him to drive by - literally right behind the hotel I was staying, there were people living out in the open where the government had bulldozed a squatter settlement. Men, woman and children just sitting on the ground in the insane heat, some begging and others trying to sell random wares to passing cars etc.

Against the drivers wishes, I got out of the car and gave money to a woman with a baby. I was instantly swarmed, and emptied my pockets of whatever rupees I had. The driver recommended that if I wanted to help, give them food instead, because the men will simply take the money from the woman/children and spend it on alcohol.

The next day, I asked the same driver to take me to a grocery store where I bought 20kg each of rice, dhal and black eyed peas, and asked him to help me distribute it. I genuinely meant well, but the entire situation backfired again. Within minutes of stopping the car, we were swarmed again. A sea of hands, some of them children, begging for whatever they could get. Some families took more, while others got nothing. Truthfully, I was sort of just paralyzed in the moment and gave out whatever was in the bag until I ran out. When there was no food left, we (the driver and I) were yelled and sworn at. He took the brunt of it, because they accused him of wanting to steal the food for himself.

I went back to my hotel room and wept. I don't exactly know what I expected to happen, but I felt completely ineffectual - whatever I gave was simply a drop in an ocean of need.

My mom and I flew out to Varanasi on the second leg of our trip. I am not going to write at length about the experience other than it was wretched - from the way starving stray dogs lay dying in the open, to smog so thick that I felt my lungs were on fire, the only saving grace was a boat tour of the ganjees. That was really beautiful, but I almost got into a fight with another Canadian, because he was messing around with one of the local kids who was selling lota flowers.

The guy and his friends were trying to bargain the kid down to 2 rupees down from 5 - keep in mind, that is literally fractions of a penny in CAD. When the kid said no, the tourist told him to do something funny to entertain him and his friends, and maybe then he would give him the money. I saw red and told him to stop fucking around with the kid. I was fully prepared to throw down until the boat tour intervened and separated our groups.

On a random note, India has managed to commodify almost every aspect of an entire religion (Hinduism). While I don't subscribe to any organized religion, I went to the Golden Temple, where so called spiritual men demanded money at every turn to pay hommage to some God, who could either bless/curse me depending on my level of generosity. It was incredibly cult like, and whatever vestige of Hindusim I had left in me died that day.

I toured where the three rivers converge into the Ganjees. Along the "beach", there were children in rags baked black by the sun, collecting cow dung to turn into fuel for cooking. I later found out that the people there were considered Chamar (the lowest caste) and it looked like a UNICEF commercial being played out in real time. How anyone can survive in those conditions seems almost unfathonable, much less find a way to escape their poverty.

There were countless of other heartbreaking sites and experiences, all speaking to a country still very much hung up on caste, status, perceived worth of people etc. This anecdote probably helps illustrate life in India for the poor. My driver for the time that I was Mumbai was named Raju - he was a wonderful person that I got to know well during my trip, and he treated my mom as though she were his own (helping her walk down the street, holding her hand through traffic etc). He told me how he lives in the slums, and how he never had a chance at education, but that he wants his kids to have a better life. He mentioned off hand that he was struggling to pay their school fees, but never did he ask for anything. In fact, he initially refused his tip because I had agreed to pay a flat rate for each day.

On my last day (I had to return to Mumbai to fly back to Canada), I told him that if I couldn't help the situation as a whole, I would like to make a difference in one persons life, so I offered to pay his kids school fees indefinitely (It is hardly a grand gesture, it amounts to about $300CAD per year). He declined and told me "Sir, I have cheated you. My name is not Raju, it is Mohammed. I use the name Raju so people think he is hindu, otherwise they may not want to hire me". He cried as he told me this, because he legitimately felt as though he had betrayed my trust.

Given that I couldn't give a rat's ass about what religion a man is or isn't, I told him that it didn't matter to me, and the offer still stands. He cried, my mom and I cried, and I left India never wanting to return, but finding some measure of solace in that I could help one family. I chose to pay the fees more so out of guilt than anything - I live a life of undeserved luxury and I felt like I was doing something wrong looking into the daily struggles of peoples lives as a tourist, and then flying back to Canada.

Why am I telling you all of this? In part, it is because I wanted to get it off of my chest and remind people that we should be so grateful we get to call Canada/America home. Also, I wanted to share a personal story about why education is so important, both to myself and on the whole.

The same people I am describing above (the poorly educated laborers in the slums) was where my family came from three generations ago. I never met my grandparents, but from what I know, they were field hands that the British forced into indentured labor and brought over to Guyana in the early 1900s. My paternal grandfather was orphaned at 7, and my maternal grandmother was illiterate.

But in a strange twist of fate, Guyana was one of the few British colonies where school was free for everyone (boys and girls) and my parents had the opportunity to attend. Both were dirt poor (literal sense, the floors made of dirt and the roofs of zinc), but through the power of education, both excelled, received scholarships, and went on to university in Canada. Both are retired now, my mom was a teacher for almost 40 years and my father was a professor for 33 (since I was born).

I am who I am because of my parents. To think that within such a short period of time, my ancestors went from living in the slums of Allahabad to being white collar professionals, all because they had access to education.

Education is both a right and privilege - every child should have access to it, but they need to appreciate what it can do when taken earnestly. It is a vehicle for social mobility, and I hope that one day Raju's children can share their story about how going to school allowed them to reach such great heights.

This is a powerful story. Thanks for sharing it with us. I hope you reconsider going back to India. You're a good person - I think you can do some good there, even if it's only something so small.
 
I was actually thinking about doing a war room thread on Democratic, Capitalist India vs Communist China, asking where you would rather live.

I get called a commie enough already, so I thought better of it, but the question does give some perspective.


Not real Capitalism.


I heard people say China is not real communism too.


So what the fuck is real communism?
 
Lot of you guys never been to a third world country it looks like. It's an ugly life for a lot of people not just Indians.
 
Yet only 70 years ago China was called the sick man of Asia....They are a second world nation now and will be first world soon. Empires arent built in a day and India is heading in the right direction.
Arent they a first world nation already? They have like the 2nd largest ecconomy with investments in countries from Africa to Venezuela and Sout east Asia
 
Anti-globalist is in reference to my stance against globalism when defined as the monopolizing of political, corporate and military power by a select few, with no loyalties to anyone other than money and power.

I am not against everything non-american, or anything silly like that.

Many will disagree with me, but I think India has a brighter future than China. Especially since I am not sure China will last another 20 years without fragmenting.

My experiences in China actually tells me otherwise, but purely out of curiosity, why do you think China will fragment?
 
My experiences in China actually tells me otherwise, but purely out of curiosity, why do you think China will fragment?

Theres potential for it to happen in the west I'd say but probably the biggest danger is internal unrest due to corruption and wealth distribution.

Honestly though what stands out for me this millennium is that the the idea neoliberial globalisation economics automatically goes hand in hand with democracy is a total fantasy, the reality seems quite the reverse, its actually very well suited to dictatorships.
 
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I read every thing. This is eye opening I have read about it in some books how impoverished some people in India can be.


But its quite different to read it from a first hand experience like your story.


Your story should be made into a short film or documentary. I will watch it
Ahem。slumdog millionaire.
 
I read every thing. This is eye opening I have read about it in some books how impoverished some people in India can be.


But its quite different to read it from a first hand experience like your story.


Your story should be made into a short film or documentary. I will watch it
frankly i dont know what is so powerful about his story where it needs to be made into a movie. Those type of movies are only made for the consumption of consumers who are in the market for that type of entertainment. I'm not hating on the guy but damn i was shocked on how people can lose their spirit and cry over those experiences. A lot of outsiders dont understand the scams that a lot of beggars pull and also the evil that is behind that industry. When people give money to those beggars they are feeding the mafia that is behind it.

If you show his original post to Indians a lot would probably feel sorry for him for his innocence and i bet many would be pretty angry with him. That nation is their life and a lot are very proud of it even if they understand the current problems that its facing. Even i was taken aback and i dont live in India. I dont understand how someone could lose their spirit over visiting the country.

I'm very optimistic about where India is heading as i see how its changing for the better on a yearly basis.
 
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Yes, the caste system has been around for millenniums. But whether or not it would have worsened if the British never came, nobody knows.

What we know is that the British actually encouraged, intensified and exploited the caste system as a means of control over the Indians.

Solid post

The British had a very difficult problem interfacing with the extreme diversity of India. What they wanted was to establish and consolodate their influence to the point of tax/resource extraction. The caste system presented the British with something recognizable to their values while also offering a means of social and economic compartmentalization.
 
Anti-globalist is in reference to my stance against globalism when defined as the monopolizing of political, corporate and military power by a select few, with no loyalties to anyone other than money and power.

I am not against everything non-american, or anything silly like that.

Many will disagree with me, but I think India has a brighter future than China. Especially since I am not sure China will last another 20 years without fragmenting.


I dont see China fragmenting they just made Pres.Xi Jim Ping pressident for life!
 
I dont see China fragmenting they just made Pres.Xi Jim Ping pressident for life!

That's perhaps more likely to lead to trouble in the future, at least there were some checks and balances on personal power post Mao that he seems to be rapidly eroding.
 
I don't remember Britain ever being described as a place even remotely resembling the op.
I’m talking about why parents have multiple children. You know, the thing you are inquiring about?

And Britain was a place without healthcare and insurance in the past, too. Family took care of the elderly then, just like it has been in every culture in the world ever since the beginning of mankind. Up until modern times, that is.
 
I’m talking about why parents have multiple children. You know, the thing you are inquiring about?

And Britain was a place without healthcare and insurance in the past, too. Family took care of the elderly then, just like it has been in every culture in the world ever since the beginning of mankind. Up until modern times, that is.

Personally, I think you are giving them too much credit.

When you are living in the conditions described in the OP, having 6 kids doesn't seem like a wise investment. But, hey, maybe that's just me.
 
Theres potential for it to happen in the west I'd say but probably the biggest danger is internal unrest due to corruption and wealth distribution.

Honestly though what stands out for me this millennium is that the the idea neoliberial globalisation economics automatically goes hand in hand with democracy is a total fantasy, the reality seems quite the reverse, its actually very well suited to dictatorships.

In the last 3 decades, China has uplifted over 700 million people out of poverty.
 
Always good when some actual interesting content pops up on here. Thank you @Brampton_Boy .

Pretty consistent with what people I've talked to who traveled there have said. I'd still like to go some day. I've had some dose of 3rd world poverty but nothing like what's been described to me about India. I really believe that it's better to witness what the world is really like than to live in a comfortable bubble.
 
Personally, I think you are giving them too much credit.

When you are living in the conditions described in the OP, having 6 kids doesn't seem like a wise investment. But, hey, maybe that's just me.
They’re just doing things that have been done since the dawn of mankind. How modern western people think is a fairly new occurance.

Ever see the happy documentary? They interview an Indian dude from the slums. The highlight of his day is coming home after work to see his son. People aren’t that different.
 
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