Rumored How to "prove" that Fedor vs Aoki/Mousasi were...

[Richard Fannin]

Light sparring with a friend is not necessarily a work. I don’t know they agreed Fedor wins. But they definitely agreed strikes will be light.

That's the thing, had they not agreed to let Fedor win, both Aoki and Mousasi would have tried harder.

Fedor was the number 1 fighter on the planet back then, a submission win over him would have been huge... I don't know if you can have a pro like Aoki agree to go both "easy, it's just a spectacle for the crowd" and "by the way, if you can submit Fedor, feel free to do it".

Mousasi would have been a different story, since he was on good terms with Fedor... still, unless they work it Chute Boxe style (they'd had PRIDE not match em up against one another, by stating that they'd let Wand win anyway), the org surely had some understanding about who was going to get the finish.

It would have been Mousasi's greatest win in martial arts had he sub'd Fedor that night, but he didn't even try.
Which is what I meant by "it wasn't a real fight", Gegard could try to throw Fedor around, but no funny stuff like real sub attempts.

 

[vote4pedro]

I thought everyone knew they were exhibitions.. or really "demonstrations" like Rickson and Royler did at a PRIDE FC event way back.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

That's the thing, had they not agreed to let Fedor win, both Aoki and Mousasi would have tried harder.

Fedor was the number 1 fighter on the planet back then, a submission win over him would have been huge... I don't know if you can have a pro like Aoki agree to go both "easy, it's just a spectacle for the crowd" and "by the way, if you can submit Fedor, feel free to do it".

Mousasi would have been a different story, since he was on good terms with Fedor... still, unless they work it Chute Boxe style (they'd had PRIDE not match em up against one another, by stating that they'd let Wand win anyway), the org surely had some understanding about who was going to get the finish.

It would have been Mousasi's greatest win in martial arts had he sub'd Fedor that night, but he didn't even try.
Which is what I meant by "it wasn't a real fight", Gegard could try to throw Fedor around, but no funny stuff like real sub attempts.

I mean if they would have tried harder than Fedor would have tried harder and probably hurt them. He is a heavyweight, there was no reason to try against him, tapping to him meant nothing.

If a LW like Aoki is going to escalate it in order to get clout he is going to get knocked out badly. Do you think Mayweather would push Usyk if he were in an exhibition?

Even if Aoki did get a submission, then what? If he were LHW it could lead to him fighting Fedor and a rematch and he would be thrusted to potentially become the #1 HW. As a LW....he gets nothing from it. Some clout on sherdog with people constantly reminding others Fedor wasn't trying. Aoki was already on top in his division in DREAM (as was Gegard).


Where would the push go? I just don't see it.

 

[manboy<3]

Those fights were exhibitions of skill, just showy playfighting

 

[Franklin U.]

... not actual competitive grappling bouts, but fixed exhibitions?

A little background: This isn't a Fedor hate thread, he is still my HW GOAT and I've been blessed with the chance to watch him fight in his prime.

But a few months ago, someone IRL told me that one of his biggest "underrated" achievements were his back-to-back quick submissions of Shinya Aoki & Gegard Mousasi, at M-1 events

(we were watching a UFC event with a bunch of friends, so there were people I had never met)

So, as a huge Fedor fanboy myself, I told him "yeah, those were fun to watch, but they were faked exhibitions", back then they barely made an effort to pretend that it was going to be a real contest; they were right after Fedor KO'd top 3 HW Andrei Arlovski, and was on top of the world, and M-1 bringing him at events with few interesting fights was a good way to bring in Fedor fans wanting to see him compete in whatever, even if it was basically a pro-wrestling bout...

I mean, the second one with Mousasi was headlined by King Mo (-1100 favorite) vs a super washed up version of Mark Kerr (+600 underdog), who would never fight again afterward.
There was no suspense for that one...

The Fedor vs Mousasi exhibition was the real main event, even if it was a pro-wrestling bout where both guys displayed high level Judo/Sambo techniques...

Thing is, people who were following the sport back then know that those fights weren't hyped like they were for real, but this guy challenged it by saying that Tapology has them listed as "exhibition MMA"

So what do you do when someone tells you? "Oh yeah? PROVE IT, you mindless hater, Fedor is the best deal with it n00b, plus worked fights "


Fedor is the best HW IMHO, but those 2 exhibitions were clearly presented as risk-free entertainment, even back when it happened. You couldn't even bet on dem.

Problem is: how do I prove it to guys who discovered MMA in the last 2 or 3 years (not that there is anything wrong with that, we were all n00bz at one point) and are used to hard proof when discussing serious business like worked fights.

So... is there a quick way to prove it, in an era where proving something is becoming more and more challenging, because you need both guys on video saying it or "lol you call that a proof?"

Of course , coming from me , bias will be cried but atm - Fedor was part mentor/idol to Gegard at the time so that " exhibition " and the ending mind as well been scripted cause Mousasi had no plans to make Fedor tap . I'm not saying that he wouldve anyway . Just putting that in proper prospective. Im a Fedor guy also so...... but I get your points.

 

[Berzerk]

I'm pretty sure those were just grappling exhibition to show the art of grappling. Literally nobody took that seriously and they weren't real grappling matches lol

 

[mjfan23]

They were exhibition contests.

Does the guy you are quoting also believe DC and Anderson was legit serious with each fighter going for the kill actually?

 

[InfinityLens]

I mean we all know that, but how do you prove it. If someone says George Washington never existed how do you prove he did?

No I am not claiming that, it's just the old dilemma of how do you establish something as historic.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I mean we all know that, but how do you prove it. If someone says George Washington never existed how do you prove he did?

No I am not claiming that, it's just the old dilemma of how do you establish something as historic.

I mean...there is evidence that George Washington existed...pretty substantial evidence. You know he's a modern man right?

 

[InfinityLens]

I mean...there is evidence that George Washington existed...pretty substantial evidence. You know he's a modern man right?

Of course there is, just like there is evidence these fights are works. Basically just saying "everybody knows that lulz" isn't enough is point.

 

[The Last King]

Its still real to me damn it! I thank them for what they did to their bodies!

 

[Richard Fannin]

I mean we all know that, but how do you prove it. If someone says George Washington never existed how do you prove he did?

No I am not claiming that, it's just the old dilemma of how do you establish something as historic.

Of course there is, just like there is evidence these fights are works. Basically just saying "everybody knows that lulz" isn't enough is point.

Well gee, finally someone who understands my problem.

At least now that this thread exist, I was able to send him the link at a later evening and tell him "well look at what guys who are long time fans of the sport are saying about it", and it was enough to deescalate the conflict, and to talk about those bouts in a new light.



It was like Sakuraba vs Kimo Leopolda back in the early 2000s...
"Everyone" agreed that it wasn't a real fight, including Sakuraba, who, when asked this question, said that his first real MMA fight was at UFC Japan...
But Kimo claimed that if the Saku fight was a work, he wasn't aware. But since it was Kimo's most high profile win, even if he knew it wasn't in his best interest to say that it was a work.

Even the old Sherdog FAQ, that is now long lost to time, had to have a section dedicated to saying "stop sending mails about the Kimo vs Saku fight, yes it wasn't a real fight, but we'll still leave it on the fight finder since there is no proof... like the Mark Coleman vs Takada fight."

 

[Mentallooser]

They were meant to be fun for all involved....

 

[InfinityLens]

Even the old Sherdog FAQ, that is now long lost to time,

Maybe the Wayback Machine?