How to Finish the ARM IN GUILLOTINE - Fold his Head down to his Nuts

[Invisible Jiu Jitsu]

The Correct Method for Finishing the Arm in Guillotine is perhaps the least commonly understood of all. Done right though, it is extremely powerful and hard to defend!

 

[JagRoss]

Is the choke on the right side of his neck from your ribs?

I've always done the arm-in in a similar motion to the arm-out (blade in trachea and twist).

 

[Zankou]

Interestingly the same movement is how you should finish a straight foot lock as well, and yet you see the same basic mistake with both ... instead of crunching and rotating, people try to extend and pull.

 

[Invisible Jiu Jitsu]

Is the choke on the right side of his neck from your ribs?

I've always done the arm-in in a similar motion to the arm-out (blade in trachea and twist).

It's often more blood choke, depends on the guy though. Try it and see where you feel it

 

[asian-glow]

Interestingly the same movement is how you should finish a straight foot lock as well, and yet you see the same basic mistake with both ... instead of crunching and rotating, people try to extend and pull.

I'm having a hard tie imagining this with a footlock. You have any videos?

 

[asian-glow]

It's much easier for me to generate leverage with the full guard but I hardly ever end up with this choke from guard. Usually I get it from front headlock and I do that baseball slide with one leg across his belly and the other over his back.

I have a much harder time generating leverage from this position, especially on larger people.

I think I remember hearing that in this type of position, the bottom knee plays a key role in reinforcing the elbow. Not sure though.

 

[Invisible Jiu Jitsu]

It's much easier for me to generate leverage with the full guard but I hardly ever end up with this choke from guard. Usually I get it from front headlock and I do that baseball slide with one leg across his belly and the other over his back.

I have a much harder time generating leverage from this position, especially on larger people.

I think I remember hearing that in this type of position, the bottom knee plays a key role in reinforcing the elbow. Not sure though.

Watch my video on the 10 finger guillotine. The mechanics are the same in the position you're talking about

 

[rmongler]

It's much easier for me to generate leverage with the full guard but I hardly ever end up with this choke from guard. Usually I get it from front headlock and I do that baseball slide with one leg across his belly and the other over his back.

I have a much harder time generating leverage from this position, especially on larger people.

I think I remember hearing that in this type of position, the bottom knee plays a key role in reinforcing the elbow. Not sure though.

Get good at turning people over onto their backs, and your finishing rate will go up significantly.

 

[Invisible Jiu Jitsu]

Get good at turning people over onto their backs, and your finishing rate will go up significantly.

completely agree!

 

[asian-glow]

Get good at turning people over onto their backs, and your finishing rate will go up significantly.

I.e. Finish it from the mount?

Often times I've had people swing themselves into mount to relieve the arm in guillotine (AIG). They hit their back to the mat so fast, however, that I often feel like my head is in danger of hitting the mat unless I let go of the AIG and post with my hands.

If they don't fling themselves, however, I usually have an OK time sweeping them into mount. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[rmongler]

Often times I've had people swing themselves into mount to relieve the arm in guillotine (AIG). They hit their back to the mat so fast, however, that I often feel like my head is in danger of hitting the mat unless I let go of the AIG and post with my hands.

If they don't fling themselves, however, I usually have an OK time sweeping them into mount. Thanks for the suggestion.

Posting on the head is actually a good way to maintain stability when attacking front headlock chokes on top. A guy with five limbs would have an easier time basing than a guy with only four limbs, no?

I.e. Finish it from the mount?

Yes. Or even better, finishing on the strong side (AKA, The Assasin).





(key detail: the two way turnover double attack)


(key detail: the grip)


(key detail: the knee slide to secure the position from front headlock)

 

[ijustwannasurf]

@rmongler can you choke with the wrapping arm gripping the triceps (second video)? Looks like more of an anaconda or darce finish. Good stuff.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

@rmongler can you choke with the wrapping arm gripping the triceps (second video)? Looks like more of an anaconda or darce finish. Good stuff.

It looks like you should be able to finish it as a shallow D'arce. If so then that'd be pretty slick

 

[asian-glow]

@rmongler can you choke with the wrapping arm gripping the triceps (second video)? Looks like more of an anaconda or darce finish. Good stuff.

I typically finish the choke with a regular guillotine grip (palm to opposite arm wrist). In BJJ it is called an arm across guillotine (Robson Moura) or Walsh choke (Brandon Quick). It is very powerful as you have a triangle type hold with your arms and you use your hip to trap his arm across - much tighter than the usual arm in guillotine, which usually requires more finesse to finish.

As you are alluding, the arm in guillotine/front headlock is a great "pit stop" position for either the darce or the anaconda.
If you have the front headlock, you have a better angle for the anaconda.
If your more hip to hip and in a position to do the assassin as shown above, you have a better angle for the darce.

It's so powerful because in theory you can maintain positional control the entire time and the most common defensive counter I see to this is to simply give up side control. Worse comes to worst you are still on top.

 

[asian-glow]

Posting on the head is actually a good way to maintain stability when attacking front headlock chokes on top. A guy with five limbs would have an easier time basing than a guy with only four limbs, no?

Yes. Or even better, finishing on the strong side (AKA, The Assasin).

You are correct on the head posting. I simply have a problem controlling my descent as my opponent will often fling themselves, so that their back hits the mat, violently in an attempt to land me head first while my arms are busy in the assassin.

Some of the guys in the videos, however, use the assassin first as a control position to take down before using it as a means to pin. As a result, they enter the pin position in a much more controlled fashion that doesn't put their head in danger of being spiked. Or they get the assassin from more of a hip to hip position so that they have a better angle to jump to mount.

With that said these videos were really cool. I especially like how you broke down the videos by key points, formal instructionals, and live demonstrations. I never thought to finish the choke like this and it looks like a very powerful way to finish. Organized, concise, and effective. BJJ videos tend have way to much talking.

1. Is it easy for the guy to regain halfguard during the jump over?

My only concern is the guy regaining half guard. It seems easy enough to deny once I'm all the way in the assassin, as I can drop my hip to seal off the space his leg needs to regain halfguard. It seems that the jump from one side of the body to the other is where my opponent is most likely to regain halfguard and give me trouble.

2. How is the assassin legal in wrestling? This seems like a chokehold. Perhaps a grey area.

 

[jack36767]

You are correct on the head posting. I simply have a problem controlling my descent as my opponent will often fling themselves, so that their back hits the mat, violently in an attempt to land me head first while my arms are busy in the assassin.

Some of the guys in the videos, however, use the assassin first as a control position to take down before using it as a means to pin. As a result, they enter the pin position in a much more controlled fashion that doesn't put their head in danger of being spiked. Or they get the assassin from more of a hip to hip position so that they have a better angle to jump to mount.

With that said these videos were really cool. I especially like how you broke down the videos by key points, formal instructionals, and live demonstrations. I never thought to finish the choke like this and it looks like a very powerful way to finish. Organized, concise, and effective. BJJ videos tend have way to much talking.

1. Is it easy for the guy to regain halfguard during the jump over?

My only concern is the guy regaining half guard. It seems easy enough to deny once I'm all the way in the assassin, as I can drop my hip to seal off the space his leg needs to regain halfguard. It seems that the jump from one side of the body to the other is where my opponent is most likely to regain halfguard and give me trouble.

2. How is the assassin legal in wrestling? This seems like a chokehold. Perhaps a grey area.

It’s a grey area, it’s like a properly applied half, the person usually stops fighting the pins to focus on lack of air and discomfort before it’s “technically” a choke

 

[rmongler]

Some of the guys in the videos, however, use the assassin first as a control position to take down before using it as a means to pin.

Yes, it is a very adaptable hold.

1. Is it easy for the guy to regain halfguard during the jump over?

My only concern is the guy regaining half guard. It seems easy enough to deny once I'm all the way in the assassin, as I can drop my hip to seal off the space his leg needs to regain halfguard. It seems that the jump from one side of the body to the other is where my opponent is most likely to regain halfguard and give me trouble.

It's funny you say that, because the assassin can actually be the key part of a series for attacking the half-guard (and butterfly-guard), in concert with the cradle and leg weave. The leg weave position itself is actually a great 'staging area' to set up finishes like front headlock chokes or double wristlocks.

There are basically three ways to 'cleanly' transition to a finish on a guy who's broken down (and if he's not broken down, you work on breaking him down).

The first way is essentially to make sure your step over technique is refined, making sure that when you step, you are high stepping over their torso, making it easier to go around, and at worst end up in mount, or quarter guard, which can be dealt with like you would with an arm triangle.

Honestly, if you are in primary position, then realistically speaking.. he can't really stop you from stepping over. The only way he could is if hes already turned all the way into you and ready to put you in half guard already, and, you'd notice if he would be trying to do that. In certain ways, him trying to turn into you actually makes the stepover even easier. Like mentioned, at best he could catch your trailing leg before you get all the way over, but really, with an arm trap guillotine grip locked up quarter guard is little more than a speed bump. Even if you're lazy and he does pull HG on you, it still leaves you in the situation of having one of the most powerful grips there is for cutting through someones guard and finishing them.

Now, a second way is to turn him over your hip, like in vids 5 and 4.

A third way is to go through his legs one leg at a time like a zipper, using a leg weave 'passing' motion to go around too the other side. You lace his near leg, where, if he were to turn into you, your knee would be blocking his 'bottom' leg from coming in, becoming a near leg back turk. From there, you slide you far leg back and in, putting it behind his near leg too, completing the 'smash pass' motion around to the other side for the finish.

Further detail in the use for passing here:

You can use the commonly appearing cradle to transition into an assassin to finish.

You can see the transition (but not the finish) from Niel Melanson here, which is basically a leg weave/smash pass movement -


(5:40)

- and you can see the start and finish (but not the transition) from this video here -



- and you can also set it up if you get into the smash pass/leg weave itself first too;




This is typical of most material on youtube; it's basically up to you to be able to use your own good sense to tell what details are more gooder, what good details are or are not rivalrous or exclusive with other details, and what good details might work together for a greater cohesive whole.

The cradle is something that shows up in a lot of situations; essentially, any situation where someone is bringing their leg up, putting their knee closer too their head. Particular concern for the submission grappler would be the butterfly guard and knee shield half guard situations, which, it ought be noted are fairly common tactics. It so happens that going directly to head and arm chokes happens to be a common and effective method of attacking these guards, and whether you go to one or the other more or less basically depends on if their reaction to you headhunting is to throw their legs up and/or invert to block you. Which, it ought be noted is also a fairly common tactic amongst those experienced with such positions.

And some more examples of entries into this series here;

 

[asian-glow]

Yes, it is a very adaptable hold.




It's funny you say that, because the assassin can actually be the key part of a series for attacking the half-guard (and butterfly-guard), in concert with the cradle and leg weave. The leg weave position itself is actually a great 'staging area' to set up finishes like front headlock chokes or double wristlocks.

There are basically three ways to 'cleanly' transition to a finish on a guy who's broken down (and if he's not broken down, you work on breaking him down).

The first way is essentially to make sure your step over technique is refined, making sure that when you step, you are high stepping over their torso, making it easier to go around, and at worst end up in mount, or quarter guard, which can be dealt with like you would with an arm triangle.

Honestly, if you are in primary position, then realistically speaking.. he can't really stop you from stepping over. The only way he could is if hes already turned all the way into you and ready to put you in half guard already, and, you'd notice if he would be trying to do that. In certain ways, him trying to turn into you actually makes the stepover even easier. Like mentioned, at best he could catch your trailing leg before you get all the way over, but really, with an arm trap guillotine grip locked up quarter guard is little more than a speed bump. Even if you're lazy and he does pull HG on you, it still leaves you in the situation of having one of the most powerful grips there is for cutting through someones guard and finishing them.

Now, a second way is to turn him over your hip, like in vids 5 and 4.

A third way is to go through his legs one leg at a time like a zipper, using a leg weave 'passing' motion to go around too the other side. You lace his near leg, where, if he were to turn into you, your knee would be blocking his 'bottom' leg from coming in, becoming a near leg back turk. From there, you slide you far leg back and in, putting it behind his near leg too, completing the 'smash pass' motion around to the other side for the finish.

Further detail in the use for passing here:

That is a nice plan of attack - take him over my hip in one go, step over, or go the leg weave route. I never thought to do the leg weave style pass into the assassin.

I have been trying to work more on my wrestling in the past few months but only on my feet. It's funny that it's now starting to inform some of my ground game as well.

I have more questions but at this point I think I would be better served drilling it a bunch and trying it live first; doing so will probably answer a lot of my questions and allow me to ask better questions.

Thank you for your contribution - it was very educational.

 

[mataleaos]

It looks like you should be able to finish it as a shallow D'arce. If so then that'd be pretty slick

Do you have any luck finishing that? I used to have a hard time with shallow darces and I've only been able to get them in the past 6 months or so. I think a key thing not mentioned much is keeping the 2nd hand on or close to their shoulder blade with the hand pointed straight down their back towards their feet.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Do you have any luck finishing that? I used to have a hard time with shallow darces and I've only been able to get them in the past 6 months or so. I think a key thing not mentioned much is keeping the 2nd hand on or close to their shoulder blade with the hand pointed straight down their back towards their feet.

I've had some luck with the shallow D'arce. It's not my best sub but I've gotten it a few times.

Keeping your 2nd hand on the shoulder blade is key, you are absolutely right. I've finished it without worrying too much about my other hand so I'm not too sure how much that effects it.

In my experience, these are really hard to finish in half guard (top or bottom). I've always finished them from side mount, after feinting some other subs. It's very tricky to lock up but if you can get it locked from there you should be golden.

Also I find that if you're having trouble finishing the choke then you can pinch down on the head, and circle to North/south to turn it into a modified crank. I've only gotten that to work twice tho.