Economy How the upper middle class keeps everyone else out

[BossRootin]

I'm sure it's those people in the light blue shade that are rigging the markets in their favor.
Who do you think owns PBS and produced the video trying to deflect blame onto the middle class.
The same people who own everything, the dark blue.

 

[ineverpost]

Yes, it's the people that go to work, stay out of prison, pay their taxes, do not abuse welfare system that are the problem.

 

[panamaican]

shouldnt the tax paying class have some say within their neighbourhoods. why shouldnt the better off see their kids getting better schooling oppurtunities than the poorer folk.

Everyone is in the tax paying class.

As for why shouldn't they? Who says they shouldn't? But basically skips the question: Are we talking about public education or private education? And it skips the history in play.

Nothing in the world stops people from getting better schooling opportunities by going to private school. What I'm discussing isn't seeking better schooling opportunities than poorer folks, what I'm discussing is people making legislative choices designed to harm others for their benefit. When these small communities secede from the school district, that's what they're doing. They're still taking money from the collective state pool for school funding. They're still taking money from the collective national pool for school funding.

We are still subsidizing their housing choices through the mortgage interest deduction (thankfully not as much as before). They're not giving people without school age children a property tax break. They're still going to drive on the roads into the communities that they left. They're still going to take money out for road repairs, etc.

So, they're still taking out the public coffers for education but making a choice where they don't have to collectively contribute to the local public coffer for anyone else. They're not willing to take on the entire cost of their community, they just want to take more money for education without putting any in for others.

 

[ineverpost]

I'm sure it's those people in the light blue shade that are rigging the markets in their favor.
Who do you think owns PBS and produced the video trying to deflect blame onto the middle class.
The same people who own everything, the dark blue.

The dark blue wants the middle class dead to lower the cost of labor to 0 and eliminate all political competition

 

[MicroBrew]

I'm sure it's those people in the light blue shade that are rigging the markets in their favor.
Who do you think owns PBS and produced the video trying to deflect blame onto the middle class.
The same people who own everything, the dark blue.

PBS is hardly a station one thinks of when they think of media that are in the tank for the super rich.

 

[BossRootin]

Everyone is in the tax paying class.

Amazon recorded 11.2 billion in profits last year, and received a 129 million dollar federal tax refund, for a tax rate of negative 1 percent.
Those who do not work and live off welfare are not in the tax paying class either.
The people who get stuck with the bill are the middle class.

 

[panamaican]

Amazon recorded 11.2 billion in profits last year, and received a 129 million dollar federal tax refund, for a tax rate of negative 1 percent.
Those who do not work and live off welfare are not in the tax paying class either.
The people who get stuck with the bill are the middle class.

You seem to be only thinking about income tax.

Property tax, sales tax, gas tax. Amazon's employees are certainly in the tax paying class. People who sell Amazon stock are in the capital gains tax paying group. SNAP, TANF and Housing assistance all require work or you're removed. And that means they're paying payroll tax.

Are you thinking primarily about children and the elderly? Because CHIP (health insurance for poor kids) and Medicaid/Medicare don't have work requirements.

 

[Gandhi]

Yeah some ok points but overall meh.

On income inequality where we say we should focus on the 20% not the 1%.

Now imagine what that blue line would look at if we removed say the top 5% or even 1%. It’s telling that this piece was happy to say where the hoarder upper middle class starts but not where it ends.The reality is the higher you go up the chain the larger portion of gains in income, so his point that we should be looking lower down the line is nonsensical.

Also how many of his points even applied to this poorly defined class? College Ivey league admissions, internships, etc? He certainly had no data to say internships were under some cartel of the top 20%. Same goes for his zoning BS to keep people out.

The idea that someone in the top 20 has to fall down and make room for someone to climb up is asinine. You want your spot come get it. No parent should think this way. I do agree that society as a whole needs to give everyone an opportunity.

That’s brings me to the only point I really liked, which was was on public schooling. The funding of schools off of local property taxes with no uniform fiscal rebalancing system is a travesty in the states and it accrues mostly to middle and upper middle class families (to extent not sending kids to private schools).

 

[IGIT]

This isn't the first time I have stated this to you, though it'll be the last. Peace.

hey MMAisGod,

if you don't mind, i'd very much like you to continue your dialogue with panamaican.

it is a good conversation for me to read.

- IGIT

 

[Gandhi]

@panamaican making some solid posts and basically I agree per the last para in my post.

We need to fix education and until the entire middle class gets behind it, things will be broken.

People are going to remain self interested and will naturally band together to effect this. That will lead to cartel like behavior at the political level, and that in turn has manifested itself in a very perverse form in the US public education system.

But (and you knew a but what coming), @BossRootin ’s graphs are on point. I had to settle for a crappier one that does not do as good of a job. There is simply no good data from the video presented or anyone else in this thread, that the top 2% to 20% are causing more of an issue than the top 1%. Or 6% to 20% are causing more issues than the top 5%, etc.

I’ll give the video a thumbs up for provoking some of us to at least think about the question. If all you middle class types really care about fairness push to fix the schools!!!

 

[LS1Rx7]

HHI of around 100K is not good living for a family if you live anywhere close to a metro area.
Honestly any less than that and you might as well quit and live off the system, I'm not kidding

 

[JonesBones]

Yeah some ok points but overall meh.

On income inequality where we say we should focus on the 20% not the 1%.

Now imagine what that blue line would look at if we removed say the top 5% or even 1%. It’s telling that this piece was happy to say where the hoarder upper middle class starts but not where it ends.The reality is the higher you go up the chain the larger portion of gains in income, so his point that we should be looking lower down the line is nonsensical.

Also how many of his points even applied to this poorly defined class? College Ivey league admissions, internships, etc? He certainly had no data to say internships were under some cartel of the top 20%. Same goes for his zoning BS to keep people out.

The idea that someone in the top 20 has to fall down and make room for someone to climb up is asinine. You want your spot come get it. No parent should think this way. I do agree that society as a whole needs to give everyone an opportunity.

That’s brings me to the only point I really liked, which was was on public schooling. The funding of schools off of local property taxes with no uniform fiscal rebalancing system is a travesty in the states and it accrues mostly to middle and upper middle class families (to extent not sending kids to private schools).

You are knocking over a strawman as is everyone else posting these statistics. We know the very top make a ton. This is about upper middle class using influence to block those below them from rising. It is common sense.

 

[High Altitude]

So laughable, the whole thought that the upper middle class are trying to keep everyone else out.

LOL.

Every single upper middle class person or family I know all have one thing in common, and it isn't education, or a wealthy family, or who they know.

It is they have some kind of skill, whether coming from education or just knowing how to do something they learned elsewhere, that other people or businesses find valuable enough to pay good money for.

That is all there is to it.

Just about anyone who has the work ethic and willingness to do it, can get there.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Lmao

Just did my taxes and my household income was 171k filing jointly with my wife. Just a few years ago I was living on my parents living room couch because I moved back in to go back to school for a career change and was working minimum wage part time. Their home was in the 'hood' too. I then finished school, landed a well paying job and moved out eventually saving up to buy a home in a nice area.

No one in my current 'upper middle-class' neighborhood did anything to stop me from moving here.

Wife and I make about the same. .177 adjusted gross income. I'd say we're very comfortable at best. By the time we max out our 401ks to be responsible, deduct health insurance and my union costs, and pay ny state their fkn cut we are left with just over half take home. We definitely don't live extravagantly...we drive 4 year old paid off cars,take one reasonable trip per year, and we don't have kids or live in a crazy expensive area.

Anything under 350k household is nothing to be envious or angry about.

 

[JonesBones]

So laughable, the whole thought that the upper middle class are trying to keep everyone else out.

LOL.

Every single upper middle class person or family I know all have one thing in common, and it isn't education, or a wealthy family, or who they know.

It is they have some kind of skill, whether coming from education or just knowing how to do something they learned elsewhere, that other people or businesses find valuable enough to pay good money for.

That is all there is to it.

Anyone who has the work ethic and willingness to do it, can get there.

You are full of shit. lol at not knowing a single person who didn't get there because of someone they know, family or other privilege. Please.

 

[High Altitude]

You are full of shit. lol at not knowing a single person who didn't get there because of someone they know, family or other privilege. Please.

Can family make it easier, sure, but that isn't keeping anyone else out.

SOMEONE in that family had to be first. Had to take the long road, the hard road, always.

Feel free to be that person and provide an easier path for your future family. No one is stopping you.

It also doesn't take that long.

I know plenty of people who started with NOTHING, no family, no hand up, and in less than 20 years are living in million dollar homes with 250k family income. Some started in college, some started in the military, some went blue collar and opened their own businesses later, some went into sales, some went straight in starting small businesses.

It isn't that hard to do.

 

[JonesBones]

Can family make it easier, sure, but that isn't keeping anyone else out.

SOMEONE in that family had to be first. Had to take the long road, the hard road, always.

Feel free to be that person and provide an easier path for your future family. No one is stopping you.

Yes, somebody in your bloodline had to be successful. No shit. Like Paris Hilton.

I plan on being rich and admit I am privileged. I am not complaining about yuppies. You guys are yuppys though. lol. It is totally uncool but deal with it.

 

[BossRootin]

You are knocking over a strawman as is everyone else posting these statistics. We know the very top make a ton. This is about upper middle class using influence to block those below them from rising. It is common sense.

The upper middle class barely makes more than the lower middle class. They have very little influence.
I haven't heard a single valid argument on how they block anybody from succeeding.
What is common sense exactly?
The fact that the elite class have manipulated society into fighting each other in order to maintain dominance?

 

[High Altitude]

Yes, somebody in your bloodline had to be successful. No shit. Like Paris Hilton.

I plan on being rich and admit I am privileged. I am not complaining about yuppies. You guys are yuppys though. lol. It is totally uncool but deal with it.

If you just blame the successful people for your failures in life, you will never get ahead.

 

[Gandhi]

You are knocking over a strawman as is everyone else posting these statistics. We know the very top make a ton. This is about upper middle class using influence to block those below them from rising. It is common sense.

Everyone is using their influence to further their own interests. That is a concept so common it does not need a documentary on PBS.

Fortunately the documentary had a more specific point. It specially carved out the 20% from the 1% for focus on the problem of growing income inequality and then proceeded to use a whole bunch of arguments that a) included the 1% and b) were more pronounced within the 1%.

So it’s fair game to point out who has really gained the most from an income inequality perspective and to ask for specific policies that the poorly defined 20% have benefited from and/or promoted.

I think public education is a good one, not so convinced about zoning, internships, or generally ensuring your kids do well.