How many shills are propagating "just 1 picogram" BS?

[Theproof]

Bisping and the fat guy on MMA Junkie said it on their individual podcasts that it was "only 1 picogram" and laboriously defined how small "just 1 picogram" is. it was fucking 60 picograms wasn't it? Those fools on MMA Junkie think of themselves are journalists

You guys on this forum are starting to lose it

 

[demaryiustargaryan96]

https://www.agilent.com/cs/library/applications/5991-6019EN.pdf
https://www.steroidal.com/steroid-profiles/turinabol/

"
In the section 3 (Results and discussion), subsection 3.3, authors of the newly
discovered metabolites wrote: “…the detection window of M3 could be estimated as 40–50
days, while M1, M2 and M4 are at least as valuable as I and II”. It is currently known, the
metabolite M3 and M2 are most valuable for WADA-accredited laboratories in context of re-
analysis of samples for turinabol findings. The majority of the new results after re-analysis of
2008 and 2012 samples are based on adverse analytical findings of metabolite M3 or its epi-
mere. In the context of information provided by authors of the analytical method, significant
information must be emphasized: “…the detection window of M3 could be estimated as 40–
50 days…”. The term “could be estimated” does not mean “validated” or “confirmed”. These
authors wrote later in the text: “An additional controlled excretion study is needed to fully
evaluate the time at which novel metabolites can be detected”. In summary, it is clearly
demonstrated that the detection window of 40-50 days for so-called novel metabolites is
simply assumed to be in so way, and based on the assumption of relative concentration.

(PDF) Novel metabolites of turinabol: WADA moving toward illusions.. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...tes_of_turinabol_WADA_moving_toward_illusions [accessed Dec 27 2018]."

Go ahead and keep reading abstracts it really makes you look smart.

The real issue is that you morons are spouting off studies as if they are fact when they are clearly disputed. You didn't even try to find something that disagrees.

You see! How hard was that? You could’ve easily just started off with this, instead hurling ad-hominem like an impulsive dickhead. Good read man.

 

[fzoid4454]

60pcg/ml = 3600pcg/60ml. It's the same thing lol. Just a measure of concentration, doesn't matter what factor you add to either side.

When does anyone anywhere ever state concentrations "per 60/ml"? And why would that make the ratio MORE of a difference than 60/ml, as the poster was trying to show?

 

[fzoid4454]

Actually, a Picogram is a measure of mass. Picogram/mL would be a concentration, or perhaps %Turanibol Metabolites. In this context, as you alluded, the only thing that matters is how much mass per volume of metabolite was detected. The mass by itself means nothing without the volume. Also, I'm not an expert, but I don't think you can do a straight line extrapolation with many of these types of cases. Pharmacology tends to get very complicated. Where the metabolites, and the concentrations they are stored in, probably differ in how the body excretes and stores these things. For example, there are certain drugs designed to be "long lasting". Testing for these drugs in urine may not indicate how much is actually stored in the body. Which is the exact reason for testing throughout the year. I agree Jones is a cheater/roider due to the EXISTENCE of these metabolites in his bodily fluids, however, I am not enough of an expert (and neither are the vast majority of Sherdoggers), to know the pharmacological effects of Turanibol. Really, all I care about it is that we know that he has cheated at some point, and the fact that he cheated, even if the metabolite has not been fully excreted from his body over a long period of time, he should still be sanctioned. Call it karma for being an asshole.

Yes, and none of that contradicts anything that I was saying. I'm merely talking about changing the denominator to something larger and entirely non-standard to make the concentration sound like a bigger number is just as misleading as understating the concentration. My only comment was about the rhetorical device being used, and none of that makes any statement, one way or the other, about the guilt/innocence of Jones, or the objectiveness/complicity of any involved organizations.

 

[fzoid4454]

How is it inaccurate? Was there not 60 pcg/ml in a 60 ml sample? Or are those numbers wrong?

The comparison is being made to the claim of "one picogram" - the incorrect claim isn't that there is one picogram in his entire body, but that concentration level, per ml. The person responding correctly pointed out that, no, it is 60 picograms/ml. But then he talks about how there were actually 3600 picograms, because the sample size was 60 ml. But no one is talking about the raw weight of the entire sample, so that's making the actual number seem like it's 60 times greater than it was, because the actual number was 60 picograms concentration. There was absolutely no reason to throw "3600" out there as any kind of comparison, and to do so seems very much like what a used car salesman would do to someone who didn't really understand what he's talking about."

He inflated the number by multiplying by the sample size, and then made a direct comparison -

Do you think there is a difference between 1 and 3600?

The difference is between 1 and 60. To claim the difference is between 1 and 3600 is off by a factor of 60, just like the claim of 1 is off by a factor of 60.

 

[Fantasy]

I don’t get how it even matters how much of it they found, isn’t it bad that they found any steroid? Wtf

 

[fractal]

The comparison is being made to the claim of "one picogram" - the incorrect claim isn't that there is one picogram in his entire body, but that concentration level, per ml. The person responding correctly pointed out that, no, it is 60 picograms/ml. But then he talks about how there were actually 3600 picograms, because the sample size was 60 ml. But no one is talking about the raw weight of the entire sample, so that's making the actual number seem like it's 60 times greater than it was, because the actual number was 60 picograms concentration. There was absolutely no reason to throw "3600" out there as any kind of comparison, and to do so seems very much like what a used car salesman would do to someone who didn't really understand what he's talking about."

He inflated the number by multiplying by the sample size, and then made a direct comparison.

So nothing is inaccurate as you pointed out before? You just don't like how the OP used the number 3600 to show the total amount of pcg in the sample because you feel big numbers are more persuasive. That's only the case if you don't understand the difference between concentration and total amount.
Just because no one is talking about the raw weight in the entire sample, it shouldn't be discussed?
OP didn't change any numbers, he just gave an additional perspective on the information. Some may need it, some may not, but there is nothing inaccurate in those numbers anywhere.

 

[kickpuncher]

No, 60x is 60x. Either way you look at it it a significant difference.

No there is a big difference when you are using minute quantities (.1picogram) vs massive (60 lbs) ones. Yes 60x is 60x but your analogy was pretty shitty.

 

[Kwinkle Kwink]

Jon Jones: "Hey steroids,... are u still here?" Steroids: "I'm still here"

 

[Kwinkle Kwink]

News Alert: They found traces of Jon Jones in Turanibol?!!

 

[Kwinkle Kwink]

Whats with all the negativity? At least Jon stays POSITIVE!!!

 

[Kwinkle Kwink]

Naa man.. You have it all mixed up!
What happened was that Jon Jones was Bitten by a Radioactive Roids Isotope, It gave him sTrAnGe Powers like "Avoiding Jail Time" " "Super Goat Considerations" "Hypno-Scum Vision", that bamboozles the others like the UFC, and the StRaNgE"s one yet... "ScumBag Radar", that enables him to "Zero" in on Hapless Villeins like Pregnant Women, With his souped up "Punk-Mobile"!!!
Evil Dours Beware,...ScumBag Jones is on the job!!!!!

 

[th Fireball Kid]

Jon Turinabone Jones

 

[fzoid4454]

So nothing is inaccurate as you pointed out before? You just don't like how the OP used the number 3600 to show the total amount of pcg in the sample because you feel big numbers are more persuasive. That's only the case if you don't understand the difference between concentration and total amount.
Just because no one is talking about the raw weight in the entire sample, it shouldn't be discussed?
OP didn't change any numbers, he just gave an additional perspective on the information. Some may need it, some may not, but there is nothing inaccurate in those numbers anywhere.

That wasn't OP, was it? As soon as he said "you're saying there's no difference between 3600 and 1" it was, absolutely, inaccurate. As soon as he made a direct comparison between the two figures, he was as wrong and dishonest as the people claiming "1".

 

[CouchBlackBelt]

That wasn't OP, was it? As soon as he said "you're saying there's no difference between 3600 and 1" it was, absolutely, inaccurate. As soon as he made a direct comparison between the two figures, he was as wrong and dishonest as the people claiming "1".

That was the point! I tried to explain this to you already. People (UFC employees mostly) were throwing around the "only 1 picogram". My point was that you can stretch the number the same way that they shrank it. They were trying to throw people off with the "only 1 picogram" knowing that's not even what he tested positive for. They shrunk the sample by a factor of 60 to make the number lower, I increased it by a factor of 60. They say there is one picogram in 1/60th of a ml. I say there is 3600 in his 60ml sample. The difference is I stated how I got 3600. The UFC/Jones shills continue to throw out "1 picogram" without acknowledging the 1 is per 1/60 ml, where the test sample is per 1ml. Again, long story short, he tested positive, again. Play with the numbers however you want but he tested positive.

 

[fzoid4454]

That wasn't OP, was it? As soon as he said "you're saying there's no difference between 3600 and 1" it was, absolutely, inaccurate.

That was the point! I tried to explain this to you already. People (UFC employees mostly) were throwing around the "only 1 picogram". My point was that you can stretch the number the same way that they shrank it. They were trying to throw people off with the "only 1 picogram" knowing that's not even what he tested positive for. They shrunk the sample by a factor of 60 to make the number lower, I increased it by a factor of 60. They say there is one picogram in 1/60th of a ml. I say there is 3600 in his 60ml sample. The difference is I stated how I got 3600. The UFC/Jones shills continue to throw out "1 picogram" without acknowledging the 1 is per 1/60 ml, where the test sample is per 1ml. Again, long story short, he tested positive, again. Play with the numbers however you want but he tested positive.

Yes, that was the point. In my initial response, I said "You were doing great, at first" (when he called everyone using the "one picogram" meme stupid for being off by a factor of 60X), and then I said "you went off the rails" when he tried to make the more dramatic point, and I said he was just as wrong as the people saying "one".

The answer for their stupidity is to call out the stupidity via accuracy, which he did, at first. The answer is not to be equally stupid, the other way, and he wasn't doing that as some sort of ironic illustrative twist. When I said that was a bad finish, people were questioning if it was inaccurate. Which is how we got here, essentially talking past each other, I think.

And, no, it's not the people at the UFC who initially used that number. It was people like Bisping who mixed and mangled analogies offered by the person who initially explained. It's never been their official line that it's just "one picogram," so claiming the same thing was being done is not honest, since it was done intentionally, and the pundits/fighters commenting who said that did so because they are stupid.

 

[th Fireball Kid]

I had to add Chael to the list

 

[Alpha_T83]

Bisping , Chael and the fat guy on MMA Junkie said it on their individual podcasts that it was "only 1 picogram" and laboriously defined how small "just 1 picogram" is. it was fucking 60 picograms wasn't it? Those fools on MMA Junkie think of themselves are journalists

EDIT:
Had to add Chael to this list

It wasn’t 1 picogram in his whole body, it was 60 picograms per ml found in a urine sample.

Not only that. As you said, it's 60pg/mL of URINE. That means in your average 150mL urine sample, you'll have 9000 picograms. That means Jon Jones would have much, much more in his body.

60pg/mL is not a small amount. Anyone that cannot calculate how many molecules are in 60 picograms of Turinabol shouldn't even weigh in on the matter.