How does Ryan Hall think about BJJ?

[yetanother]

not at all actually not many people watched dvds back then i was the first person in my state to even use de la riva and reverse de la riva around 2010 that shows

I know a ton of guys who watched the Ryan DVDs. Most of my friends can't stand the Danaher bullshit on his.

 

[tekkenfan]

I know a ton of guys who watched the Ryan DVDs. Most of my friends can't stand the Danaher bullshit on his.

i agree Danaher teaching style sucks for dvds but knowledge wise hes the king ryan halls triangle was very popular in 2010 in 2010 2011 most guys had ryan halls triangle and were doing cyborgs upsidedown guard was very popular

 

[asian-glow]

lets put it this way.. his triangle dvd had such impact that a whole lot of people call the 90 degree triangle version as the ryangle, eventhough it has been done for decades that way. Thats how mind blowing was that dvd.

I still do the triangle this way....what is the modern way?

 

[DPS831]

he says how he likes to break things down on his instructionals and I think it's indicative of how he thinks about things. I think he takes a very physics based approach, and looks a lot at things from a structural, engineering, and physics perspective. In many ways very scientific. You can really tell he ventures more into those ideas on his final sets, the open elbow and the defensive guard. He talks a lot more conceptually on those sets about the physics of how keeping an elbow open makes someone weaker, or how on defensive guard you should rely on your skeletal structure to keeps walls and frames between you and your opponent. He's good at knowing the critical aspects at every stage of a technique or sequence that are needed to make it work. I heard one of Marcelo's black belts say he's the best late stage defense guy they ever rolled with because he knows exactly how and to remove or prevent a successful ingredient at the last second.

What I don't think people talks about as much is that he really seems to be connected with the art part of martial arts as well. For example K. Florian, J. Glover, J. Rader, and F. Zahabi all say he's the most artisitc/creative grappler they know. He is very open minded and never limits himself into thinking within the confines of what grappling should be like, or look like. For example he will do things I don't see many people doing like using his feet to pin people's wrist to the mat to keep them stretched apart from knee on belly or other top positions.

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Most people wouldn't think to do that, but it fits in with the idea of keeping someone's elbow open and keeping them pinned. It's out of the box but he's open minded so whether it's that or something else, just because it looks strange or people might say it's not "high percentage" doesn't mean he's not willing to take the time to find out. I've noticed he's able to make a lot of things work that people say shouldn't work. He also was blending folkstyle wrestling ideas with jiu-jitsu ideas before it became fashionable.

Finally he seems to openly question authority and institutions. I remember when he said the conventional shrimp didn't work about 10 years ago and everyone was losing their shit. He went on to show a better shrimp and technical stand up on the defensive guard set and it made more sense once he showed it. But he's never been afraid to tell anyone or even everyone that they're wrong. Or if they're not wrong that they're at least not thinking about things in a way that they should. One thing he's said a lot is "Even if I can't prove it with my skillset yet, I'm believe that *insert idea here* is wrong or incomplete and there's a better way."

So TLDR: He's very scientifically minded. Very artistic. Very open to questioning long-standing institutions.

Nice write-up. Hall was one of the pioneers of understanding and teaching BJJ as a science (based on principles from physics) with an emphasis on concepts instead of only focusing on specific techniques. Both of these aspects of teaching (science + concepts) had a major impact on the sport's overall development, in my opinion. If anyone has seen the Preemptive Framing series I posted on YouTube a few years ago, it was 100% inspired by the concepts from Hall's Defensive Guard Series.

 

[mysteriousnwza]

Nice write-up. Hall was one of the pioneers of understanding and teaching BJJ as a science (based on principles from physics) with an emphasis on concepts instead of only focusing on specific techniques. Both of these aspects of teaching (science + concepts) had a major impact on the sport's overall development, in my opinion. If anyone has seen the Preemptive Framing series I posted on YouTube a few years ago, it was 100% inspired by the concepts from Hall's Defensive Guard Series.

there were so good, will be a headhunter part fourth?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I still do the triangle this way....what is the modern way?

The traditional way is staying square in front of your opponent and pulling the head down, the Ryan way is getting the 90 degeee angle...

 

[asian-glow]

The traditional way is staying square in front of your opponent and pulling the head down, the Ryan way is getting the 90 degeee angle...

I do it the Ryan way where u go perpendicular - I thought you were saying Ryan's way was the old way.

I think even the square way is pretty good. I feel like every worlds has a couple guys finished this way.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I do it the Ryan way where u go perpendicular - I thought you were saying Ryan's way was the old way.

I think even the square way is pretty good. I feel like every worlds has a couple guys finished this way.

It works for sure, but is not the most efficient way to finish it...

 

[yetanother]

I do it the Ryan way where u go perpendicular - I thought you were saying Ryan's way was the old way.

I think even the square way is pretty good. I feel like every worlds has a couple guys finished this way.

Even Ryan Hall has used the square angle on occasion. It's good to have both.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Even Ryan Hall has used the square angle on occasion. It's good to have both.

Is just not efficient. Sometimes you can’t get an angle, sometimes is not even necessary, what shouldn’t be in question is which one is superior to which one...

 

[yetanother]

Is just not efficient. Sometimes you can’t get an angle, sometimes is not even necessary, what shouldn’t be in question is which one is superior to which one...

If you have good square triangle details it takes very little strength. The angle just allows you to use more force so you don't have to fiddle around that much

 

[BJJ_Rage]

If you have good square triangle details it takes very little strength. The angle just allows you to use more force so you don't have to fiddle around that much

The angle allows you to squeeze as long as you want...staying square your gokhn yo burn your legs out quite fast if you can’t put the guy out, also it’s way easier to defend.

 

[Balto]

I don't believe there is one best technique for the triangle.

The triangle is sensitive to body proportions more than most techniques. The way a 6'8" guy does an RNC and a 5'8" guy does an RNC won't be that different. The way they will do triangles will be completely different though.

Even taking height as a constant since once you figure something out you are always the same height, the other variable is the size of the opponent's upper torso and neck. That constantly varies between opponents. So if you want to be good at the triangle, you have to keep changing your technique to fit the opponent's neck and trapped arm area.

Making the angle like Ryan shows is more effective for smaller guys fighting bigger opponents. It's not a surprise Ryan would show that way as he is smaller. Staying square works better the taller you are and the skinnier your opponent is.

One of my students has a good triangle. He is a brown belt probably about 6'4" and a medium-heavy (very lanky). He tapped a lot of people with the triangle but never got this 5'7" featherweight black belt with it. He'd lock it up but could never finish.

I pulled him aside and taught him to make his triangle "bad" in that situation. That is to not cut the angle and in fact trap MORE of his opponent's shoulder in the triangle. I showed him to basically do the opposite of the details on the Ryan Hall DVD. This wouldn't work well against someone more his size but on the smaller black belt it is correct.

Suddenly he started tapping that guy out with "bad" triangle technique. It was a revelation to him because he never thought about it that way but when you are tall and the opponent is skinny, you actually screw yourself up by making an angle and doing the Ryan Hall way. It's much better to stay square and trap a large part of the shoulder in the triangle in that case.

 

[yetanother]

The angle allows you to squeeze as long as you want...staying square your gokhn yo burn your legs out quite fast if you can’t put the guy out, also it’s way easier to defend.

There are ways to do the regular one with minium effort (caios shows them where you add a second triangle with your arms so you just hip in instead of squeezing it). It takes actually less effort the Caio way.

 

[LoneLynx]

I still do the triangle this way....what is the modern way?

Been doing the 90 degree thing and had no idea it came from Ryan, my first BJJ coach used to make a joke that it was a triANGLE, so you had to get the angle.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

There are ways to do the regular one with minium effort (caios shows them where you add a second triangle with your arms so you just hip in instead of squeezing it). It takes actually less effort the Caio way.

It doesn’t create the same ammount of pressure and you need to be able to hug your own legs that’s not always possible if you are facing a very big guy... if understood your example correctly

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I don't believe there is one best technique for the triangle.

The triangle is sensitive to body proportions more than most techniques. The way a 6'8" guy does an RNC and a 5'8" guy does an RNC won't be that different. The way they will do triangles will be completely different though.

Even taking height as a constant since once you figure something out you are always the same height, the other variable is the size of the opponent's upper torso and neck. That constantly varies between opponents. So if you want to be good at the triangle, you have to keep changing your technique to fit the opponent's neck and trapped arm area.

Making the angle like Ryan shows is more effective for smaller guys fighting bigger opponents. It's not a surprise Ryan would show that way as he is smaller. Staying square works better the taller you are and the skinnier your opponent is.

One of my students has a good triangle. He is a brown belt probably about 6'4" and a medium-heavy (very lanky). He tapped a lot of people with the triangle but never got this 5'7" featherweight black belt with it. He'd lock it up but could never finish.

I pulled him aside and taught him to make his triangle "bad" in that situation. That is to not cut the angle and in fact trap MORE of his opponent's shoulder in the triangle. I showed him to basically do the opposite of the details on the Ryan Hall DVD. This wouldn't work well against someone more his size but on the smaller black belt it is correct.

Suddenly he started tapping that guy out with "bad" triangle technique. It was a revelation to him because he never thought about it that way but when you are tall and the opponent is skinny, you actually screw yourself up by making an angle and doing the Ryan Hall way. It's much better to stay square and trap a large part of the shoulder in the triangle in that case.

I don’t know how is this possible, it’s a matter of how you are squeezing, if you have long lengs and are going 90 degrees, but your are not stomping and curling (to use Ryan’s terminology) you may run with this problem, I’m short but have quite skinny and let’s say long lengs for my height, and skinny necks have never gotten me problems, I just stomp a little bit harder, and I can do that motion for a very long time... I

 

[Balto]

I don’t know how is this possible, it’s a matter of how you are squeezing, if you have long lengs and are going 90 degrees, but your are not stomping and curling (to use Ryan’s terminology) you may run with this problem, I’m short but have quite skinny and let’s say long lengs for my height, and skinny necks have never gotten me problems, I just stomp a little bit harder, and I can do that motion for a very long time... I

Stomp and curl only changes the size of your triangle if you let your foot push through your knee. But that diminishes the structural strength of the triangle. So it's a trade off there.

The tightest triangle (structurally with your bones) is the one you can lock with the least amount of angle. The size of the triangle your legs make is more or less fixed no matter which angle you are at. The natural tightness then becomes how much of your opponent you have jammed into that fixed space. Making the angle jams less of him into that same space. Therefore making the angle lessens the structural pressure on his neck.

The stomp and curl loosens your triangle somewhat. The idea is that you make up for it with strength by putting yourself in a position to use big muscles (glutes and hamstrings) to crank on it. That works well in a lot of situations. I'm about Ryan's size and use his way most of the time.

But if you're much taller, the triangle is loose even before you cut the angle. In that case if you angle to stomp and curl, it's just way too loose to make up for it with strength alone. The trick is to stay square and use the third dimension backwards to triangle your foot lower on your opponent's ribs. This makes it structurally tight even against a skinny opponent.

You said you are short so I doubt any of this applies to you. Long legs for your height or not, if your height is anything less than average, stomp and curl is almost always the way to go. Even for average height, stomp and curl works a lot of the time.

It's when you are a guy with above average height that you start to see why some other ways still persist. I mean do we really think top competitors just missed the memo on this detail that has been well known for 10+ years now? There is a good reason why people still stay square sometimes even at the highest levels.

 

[ChainFlow]

Been doing the 90 degree thing and had no idea it came from Ryan, my first BJJ coach used to make a joke that it was a triANGLE, so you had to get the angle.

It doesn't "come from" him, he just popularized it.

I learned it with the angle cut and hamstring curl/calf flex mechanics from both my Judo and BJJ coaches before his dvds came out.

I've definitely met a LOT of old-school Brazilians that still insist on the front-on triangle as the "real" way, though.

I teach the triangle frequently and one of my top students is well known for his despite him being long and lanky and me being shorter and stocky. We finish our triangles differently. As Balto's mentioned there are several valid mechanics depending on your leg length and the size of their neck + their shoulders. The basic 4, which in some cases can be combined:

1) Angle cut, hamstring curl, calf flex ("Ryangle")
2) Head-on, pull down the head
3) "scissor" the legs, driving the neck-side leg in while bringing the other knee towards you (useful against larger people)
4) twisting your feet to the outside so that the space between your legs disappears (sometimes risky for your ligaments)

I'd be very curious to hear Ryan Hall's opinions on this topic.

 

[Balto]

It doesn't "come from" him, he just popularized it.

I learned it with the angle cut and hamstring curl/calf flex mechanics from both my Judo and BJJ coaches before his dvds came out.

I've definitely met a LOT of old-school Brazilians that still insist on the front-on triangle as the "real" way, though.

I also learned it the stomp/curl way from my instructor before the DVD came out. I think it was in common use at the time.

I didn't really learn the advantages of staying square until I trained with other instructors later. I was skeptical at first. But eventually I saw why the other way is still around.