how do you get speed in your kick?

[Nightstrike]

When I did TKD, at the end of the year I did it, I was one of the hardest kicker's at the club.
Speed? I'd say work your calves..but for me I'd EXPLODE!
I also just like to make huge sweeping kicks.
Set your kick up, and in my personal experience, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with speed, because THEY are worrying bout this big fucking baseball bat hitting them in the chest.

 

[Gregster]

Relax, and the fluidity and ease you acquire with constant practice a repetition will translate into speed. Be patient, train regularly, and heed your coaches and it will come.

DO NOT wear ankle weights, unless you've decided that fucking up your joints is something you want to do. You can maybe isolate the movements and do them slowly with weights, not striking as you do, but that will build more strength than speed. There are forms of resistance training that you can do which will provide for you the benefits of strapping weights on your legs without the damange. One are rubber resistance bands you can apply to your ankles to wear when kicking (one I think is called "Iso-Kick" and sold widely in MA publications). Another, if you have access to a pool, is to kick while standing up to your chest in water.

Also accept the fact that you will invariably kick faster than some, and slower than others. Work on developing your stand-up game around being able to encounter either.

 

[David Kless]

That's the best advice, by far in this thread. Also, I would strongly advise against wearing ankle weights while kicking: it could'nt be good for your joints, especially knees.

Thank you thank you, I was actually considering using weights but it makes so much sense why I wouldn't want to. I guess I was meant to read this post haha.

 

[miniaq]

Relax.... I wouldn't use weights. Exercises for flexibility and balance help kicking, as do core strength moves. i used to pick up a leg and try to fire kicks from the hip at a bag w/o putting my foot down between. Very good for hip and trunk muscles.

Then plyometric exercises, which are basically anything involving fast explosive motions. Short hard sprints on hills, stair running (hop up on one leg, then the other, then alternate 5 each foot, then take two at a time, then hit every step as fast as you can, then see how many you can take with each two-footed jump, etc..) focus on fast and explosive.

weightlifting is good, too, but train the speed in after you build the muscle or you get slow, strong muscle.

words to kick by........Put a lot of emphasis in FLEXIBILITY. Look at all the greats when it comes to the kicking game starting with oldies but goodies like super foot wallace to crocop etc.... they all have one thing in common, great flexibility and range of motion which turns into speed and power. It amases me when guys at the gym start throwing hard kicks without doing some serious streching.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

words to kick by........Put a lot of emphasis in FLEXIBILITY. Look at all the greats when it comes to the kicking game starting with oldies but goodies like super foot wallace to crocop etc.... they all have one thing in common, great flexibility and range of motion which turns into speed and power. It amases me when guys at the gym start throwing hard kicks without doing some serious streching.

You should never stretch before hard kicking, it throws off your coordination and makes you sluggish.

As for cold kicking, it can be trained and learned.

 

[miniaq]

You should never stretch before hard kicking, it throws off your coordination and makes you sluggish.

As for cold kicking, it can be trained and learned.

Well, I guess when you make thousands of comments you are bound to say some really silly shit, this is by far one of the best I ve ever heard, Thanks buddy had a great laugh.

 

[Deleted member 56619]

Wouldnt you pull a muscle if you didnt warm up and stretch before throwing hard kicks?

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Well, I guess when you make thousands of comments you are bound to say some really silly shit, this is by far one of the best I ve ever heard, Thanks buddy had a great laugh.

I'm sorry you feel this way, but not only can I kick to the head cold (and I was extremely inflexible when I started), but I have far fewer injuries since I started stretching AFTER the workout. I'm ready for a workout in a couple of minutes of dynamic exercises.

But don't take my word for it. Read what the stretching and flexibility experts have to say about it, like Tom Kurz, Pavel Tsatsouline and Christian Thibadeau. Read what the top exercise science people have to say about it, like Mel Siff. Read the scientific publications which measured the maximum power output and muscle coordination of people after stretching.

There is a wealth of information out there outside your dojo. But it will take an open mind.

If you do have an open mind, then read "Stretching Scientifically" by Tom Kurz, "Relax into stretch" by Pavel Tsatsouline, "Supertraining" by Mel Siff, and "Stretching and flexibility FAQ" by Brad Appleton (available online).

Wouldnt you pull a muscle if you didnt warm up and stretch before throwing hard kicks?

Depends on what you mean by "stretch". If by "stretch" you mean dynamic stretches, such as leg raises and shadowkicks, then yes, these exercises (together with a good warmup) will adequately prepare you for a workout.

If you mean "sit on the floor puffing and panting and screaming in pain for 20 minutes" then you are begging for an injury if you kick after that. Not only are your muscles sore and asleep, but your joints and ligaments are very sensitive, and your muscular coordination is off.

A warmup and some dynamic stretching is always good before a hard kicking session, no argument there. But you CAN learn to relax your muscles even without a warmup, if you do dynamic stretches daily and consistently and early in the morning. Stretching is all about relaxing, and if you teach your body that it's nice and comfortable to swing your legs around first thing in the morning, they won't resist much during the day.

 

[miniaq]

Great stuff, from now on all top level athletes including Gymnasts and classical dancers whom are among the most flexibale and well coordinated athletes in the world will do away with hours of serious streching and start "teaching their muscles to relax" by throwing a few high kiks at 6 AM!
At least I m glad to find out you do one right thing which is to wrap up your training with a strech.
BTW for someone who doesn t believe much in the benefits of streching you seem to have a library fully devoted to the subject!

 

[Tri-StateTerror]

Thank god for the search function.

 

[killer_kicks88]

EEG, i own the book but it's on my own computer, so PLEASE post some scientific studies done by Pavel and others for this guy to read before he hurts himself! he's giving some ghey advice and others may pick up on it and then we'll have to teach them the right way all over again

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Great stuff, from now on all top level athletes including Gymnasts and classical dancers whom are among the most flexibale and well coordinated athletes in the world will do away with hours of serious streching

Gymnasts DO stretch before workouts, but this is because gymnastics is not martial arts. Gymnasts require a very high level of static flexibility in their training, which martial arts do not. Martial artists only need a high level of dynamic flexibility, which is why they should prepare for their workouts with dynamic stretching.

Just out of interest, how many top level athletes "including Gymnasts and classical dancers" do you personally know so you can tell us with such confidence how they stretch?

and start "teaching their muscles to relax" by throwing a few high kiks at 6 AM!

Actually, stretching is all about teaching your muscles to relax. You can't "stretch" your muscles, not significantly, anyway. Your muscles are long enough, and most people CAN do the splits. What is stopping you is your central nervous system which makes your muscles resist the stretch due to fear of injury. This is why you stretch, to teach your muscles how to relax.

The way to teach your muscles to relax comes in a dynamic and a static part. Both are related, but different. The static part is the splits and keeping a stretched position. The dynamic part are the dynamic movements such as kicks.

To improve the static flexibility, you need to do static stretches, such as relaxed stretches or PNF stretches. Your static flexibility improves in the course of weeks and months and NOT in 20 minutes before a workout. You can't "stretch" and then be immediately more flexible. But what you can do is prepare yourself for the workout through dynamic stretches, and then devote the end of your workout to static stretches, to improve your static flexibility in the long run.

You don't simply throw some high kicks at 6am, you do some leg raises first thing in the morning. This resets your Central Nervous System and keeps you more limber during the day. In the long run, it keeps your muscles relaxed enough to be able to kick cold.

At least I m glad to find out you do one right thing which is to wrap up your training with a strech.
BTW for someone who doesn t believe much in the benefits of streching you seem to have a library fully devoted to the subject!

You are one very confused individual. The reason why I know so much about stretching is that, unlike you, I've read scientific work which actually examined what stretching does and doesn't do.

Stretching is good for you. If done properly. That means lots of dynamic stretches before the workout, and PNF stretches after the workout, coupled with some strength training in the full ROM.

This IS how the top athletes stretch, but sadly it hasn't penetrated the regular McDojo, where people still stretch like they used to 50 years ago, with all the related injuries.

Do yourself a great favour and read this. ALL of it:

http://www.stadion.com/column.html

 

[techninja]

Originally Posted by Evil Eye Gouger
You should never stretch before hard kicking, it throws off your coordination and makes you sluggish.

As for cold kicking, it can be trained and learned.



Well, I guess when you make thousands of comments you are bound to say some really silly shit, this is by far one of the best I ve ever heard, Thanks buddy had a great laugh

Your actually a dick...alot of fighters dont stretch befor a fight, im actually a sports student, and theres no firm evidence of the benifits of stretching, an example i can give u is robbie lawler who does very little too no streching when warming up because he feels it decreases his power, so befor u have a go get some facts right

 

[miniaq]

Thank you for sharing the link. Let me say that after seeing the guys orange hot pants, cut-off shirt and matching leg-ins I really had to force myself to read his articles, but I did read most of the articles that were relevent. Unlike you I do not agree with the content of his articles, I consider it to be yet another commercial attempt backed by some nonproven "scietific studies". I am not surprised that in a day and age were almost noone wants to put in the effort, sweat and tear that goes into reaching goals publication such as this will appeal to some.

 

[miniaq]

..alot of fighters dont stretch befor a fight, im actually a sports student, and theres no firm evidence of the benifits of stretching, an example i can give u is robbie lawler who does very little too no streching when warming up because he feels it decreases his power, so befor u have a go get some facts right[/QUOTE]

With comments like this Sherdog seems to be more a great place for a laugh instead of an informative forum
As for me being a dick, maybe that s why your sister loves me so much. :wink:

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Thank you for sharing the link. Let me say that after seeing the guys orange hot pants, cut-off shirt and matching leg-ins I really had to force myself to read his articles, but I did read most of the articles that were relevent.

Tom Kurz may look like a fruitcake, but he can do a suspended split and kick almost vertically without a warmup. I'll take his words over yours, especially since his theories are nothing new and are well known to everybody who has followed exercise science in the last 20 years.

As I said, many really respected top exercise science people such as Christian Thibadeau and Mel Siff have written about the importance of PNF and dynamic stretches.

Currently, there isn't a single study showing that stretching before a dynamic workout improves flexibility during the workout, and there are studies showing that stretching reduces your maximum power output for up to one hour after stretching.

"Due to the paucity, heterogeneity and poor quality of the available studies no definitive conclusions can be drawn as to the value of stretching for reducing the risk of exercise-related injury." (The efficacy of stretching for prevention of exercise-related injury: a systematic review of the literature, 2003, Weldon) abstract

A typical muscle stretching protocol performed during preexercise warm-ups does not produce clinically meaningful reductions in risk of exercise-related injury in army recruits. (A randomized trial of preexercise stretching for prevention of lower-limb injury, 2000, Pope) abstract

Researchers show that athletes should not perform prolonged static stretching before the big game or a key practice session because this slows muscle activation for around an hour afterwards, (Reduced strength after passive stretch of the human plantar flexors, 2000, Fowles) abstract

I could quote more studies, but it is obvious that you are not interested in science but the one true way you have been taught.

Unlike you I do not agree with the content of his articles, I consider it to be yet another commercial attempt backed by some nonproven "scietific studies". I am not surprised that in a day and age were almost noone wants to put in the effort, sweat and tear that goes into reaching goals publication such as this will appeal to some.

Sweat and tears are good if they are actually leading you to your goal. There is also a time and place where sweat and tears are really stupid because you are simply training wrong.

It takes a lot more sweat and tears to perform a stringent PNF stretching programme three times a week, in addition to dynamic stretches two times a day, than it does to do static passive stretches 20 minutes before a workout, thinking that this will somehow prepare you for full-power kicking.

But hey, in my 13 years in martial arts I have truly seen and tried everything, from ballistic crap, over "fight through the pain" stretches where a partner pushes you across the pain barrier while you scream, all the way to modern isometric and pnf stretches combined with dynamic exercises.

The "standard", tried and tested method gave me a ripped meniscus, fucked up tendons, seriously damaged hip ligaments, and dangerous muscle imbalance, combined with weekly muscle pulls and muscle tears because my legs weren't being adequately prepared for the kicking session which followed. Then, I researched and learned about the physiology of stretching, about contract-relax stretching, about dynamic exercises, and about relaxation. Within several short months, I got within inches of a side split and was kicking above head height with no warmup whatsoever. (keep in mind, a warmup is ALWAYS good, if you have time for it, but in the street, I won't skip rope for 20 minutes)

I'm not saying that the standard, bite-your-lip-and-scream method didn't work for you -- I know that some people see success with it. But I know what fucked me up and what actually improved my flexibility. And I also know that there is science to back it up and explain what happens with the stretch reflex and fast dynamic exercises.

And this is why I want to stop other people from suffering the same fucked up injuries I've suffered through by exposing them to the PROPER way to stretch safely.

Do NOT stretch before a workout. Do a good warmup and dynamic stretches before training, and do them every morning. Supplement them with PNF stretches every other or every third day for static flexibility, and some full-ROM strength exercises for the weak areas. Know your limit and give yourself time to progress.

That's all there is to stretching.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Great stuff, from now on all top level athletes including Gymnasts and classical dancers whom are among the most flexibale and well coordinated athletes in the world will do away with hours of serious streching and start "teaching their muscles to relax" by throwing a few high kiks at 6 AM!

One more thing.

Olympic weightlifters are among the most flexible athletes in the world.

They never stretch.

They get their flexibility through weight training.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

You might find this interesting as well:

Passive stretching can sometimes increase pain tolerance, without actually increasing flexibility: "Stretch tolerance should be considered a contributing factor in lengthening responses to passive stretching. (M. Zito, D. Tiberio, and P.J. Brennan (USA), From Proceeding (387) Biomechanics - 2003) abstract

During the 10-week period, the training group of 11 elderly women followed a three times a week strength programme. Each workout consisted of the following exercises, all using resistance machines: chest press, seated row, shoulder press, seated biceps curl, seated triceps press, leg press, calf press, ab crunch. Subjects were correctly supervised for technique during the programme. The women performed no flexibility exercises as part of the training programme. ...... These results show that the training group had significantly improved their sit-and-reach score, whereas the control group showed no change. (Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2002, 16(1), pp14-18., Barbosa et al.)

Recent literature has demonstrated that static stretching exercise may lead to an acute reduction in an individual’s ability to perform activities requiring maximal strength and/or power (see Behm, Button, & Butt, 2001; Cornwell, Nelson, Heise, & Sidaway, 2001; and McNeal & Sands, 2003 for example). (THE EFFECTS OF ACUTE STATIC STRETCH ON JOINT POSITION SENSE IN THE SHOULDER): J.R. McNeal, Ph.D., H.A. Salo - Eastern Washington University, Dept of Physical Education, Health and Recreation. Cheney, WA. W.A. Sands, Ph.D. – Head - Sport Biomechanics and Engineering, United States Olympic Committee, Colorado Springs, CO. full paper

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

And here are some studies about dynamic stretching which you should probably read:

“Plantarflexor muscle stretching programmes prescribed to increase static ankle dorsiflexion may not alter ankle joint kinematics during ambulation.” (“Plantarflexor Stretching Effects on Static and Dynamic Ankle Dorsiflexion,” Journal of Orthopaedic and Sports Physical Therapy, Vol. 32(1), p. A-5 (PL12), 2002).

Thus it seems that there are clear differences in the effects of dynamic and static stretches. Only dynamic movement throughout the range of motion resulted in any reduction in muscle stiffness, an important factor in reducing injury risks. .... This suggests that dynamic stretches, slow controlled movements through the full range of motion are the most appropriate exercises for warming up. By contrast, static stretches are more appropriate at the end of a workout to help relax the muscles and facilitate an improvement in maximum range of motion. Raphael Brandon, referencing Medicine & Science in Sport and Exercise, 33(3): 354-358

"Stretching immediately before exercise has never been shown to prevent injury," one of the authors, Dr Ian Shrier, says of his findings. "I wouldn't say it is conclusive evidence, but overall, there is strong evidence. Some people can still argue that it might prevent injury in certain populations, for example, elite athletes; but there's no basic science research or clinical research to support this idea." http://www.coolrunning.com.au/general/2000e023.shtm (an overview of recent research)

In general, PNF stretching has resulted in greater increases in range of motion compared with static or ballistic stretching (26,50-56), though some results have not been statistically significant (57-59).

...

Although activity by itself does not have a major effect on range of motion, studies consistently show greater range-of-motion increases after warm-up followed by stretching than after stretching alone (42,44). This research has probably been the basis for the recommendation to always warm up before stretching. The problem is that most people interpret it to mean that stretching before exercise prevents injuries, even though the clinical and basic science research suggests otherwise (7,8). A more precise interpretation is that warm-up prevents injury (46-49), whereas stretching has no effect on injury (7,8). Therefore, if injury prevention is the primary objective (eg, recreational athletes who consider performance a secondary issue) and the range of motion necessary for an activity is not extreme, the evidence suggests that athletes should drop the stretching before exercise and increase warm-up.

...

New evidence suggests that stretching immediately before exercise does not prevent overuse or acute injuries (7,8).

Individualized Recommendations for Healthy Muscles, Ian Shrier, MD, PhD; Kav Gossal, MD
THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 28 - NO. 8 - AUGUST 2000

Please, by all means join this discussion by citing studies which support your point of view.

 

[True2KungFu]

Dont waste time on them EEG theyre just blind.

using kurz's methods i went from an inflexible bastard to being able to do splits and kick people in the head that are half a foot taller than me with ease.