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How do you feel about special treatment for female grapplers? Effective or no?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Marbig, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Marbig

    Marbig Brown Belt

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    Over the years, I've seen women entering into BJJ receive more and more special treatment. Don't get me wrong - I am supportive of women participating in combat sports and, as a smaller guy, often buddy up with them during class with no problems whatsoever - but it irks me that some gyms offer them stuff like cheaper memberships (I know one gym that offers women 40% off), all women classes during prime time slots in the evening and give them discounts on gear I don't receive.

    I realise that women are a minority in class but do you think these incentives are actually encouraging more women to stay? In my experience, the ladies who enjoy competing don't like the more casual, self-defence orientated "pink team class" (or whatever cliche term is used) anyways and its eating into the limited time I get to roll. Part of the reason I'm so against the idea of affirmative action apart from the aforementioned decreased training time is because I know many good female grapplers. I am a smaller guy and I know quite a few blue/purple/brown/black belt chicks who can tap me much more than I can tap them (I'm a stripe-less blue). Hell, I rolled with Mackenzie Dern at her seminar (I went with my ex as her birthday treat) and Mackenzie tapped me left and right! She definitely doesn't need special protection in any normal class. Not to mention the girls that I know are also quite financially well-off so I don't get the point of a discount either.

    I don't know. From a male perspective, I just think women classes and discounts are not only excessive but also non-productive. I really don't see the next Ronda Rousey hopping around in a pink gi half-heartedly drilling an ineffective self-defence sequence while talking about boys and, in my opinion, the girls that do get attracted to female classes will quit due to the intensity difference in the mixed classes anyways.

    What do you think? Do you treat girls differently in your gym and what is the result? More female participants or around the same number?
     
  2. johnkreese

    johnkreese Brown Belt

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    All it is, is a marketing ploy set up to gain more income from a demographic that is a minority among BJJ. Many women come into schools inquiring about training but feel uncomfortable when they don't see any(or many) women on the mats. It's easy to forget how hard it is to walk on those mats for the first time, and for women, training in these positions with men they don't know can be intimidating. So, you slash the price and increase your probability that you'll find a woman that will join. Finding a woman grappler as talented and dedicated as Ronda Rousey is a crapshoot - but you increase your chances when you have a grappling program that has women in it.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Seems like more of a McDojo thing than a man/woman thing.

    If the female classes are truly "hopping around in a pink gi half-heartedly drilling an ineffective self-defence sequence while talking about boys" as you say, that's just plain old commercialization of the gym catering to the lowest common denominator. This actually works great for male classes too, and it will probably be following shortly if that is where the instructor wants to go with things. The male classes just hop around talking about their fantasy football teams or something.

    It's a great way to sell a bunch of contract memberships. It pretty much sucks for actually teaching martial arts though.

    If that is really what is going on, I would consider it a bad sign. But not for the reasons you are thinking about.
     
  4. GKY

    GKY Green Belt

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    I noticed that as well. It seems to be a very BJJ thing too. When you go to a wrestling or judo class (especially wrestling) there are a decent amount of women and they just show and do their thing like everyone else. They certainly haven't received special treatment in my experience.

    However, when a girl shows up to a BJJ class it's like a completely different world. The guys suck up to them and instructors give them a lot of special attention that they don't give to newbie guys. I myself usually go very light on women I roll with, but that's usually due to large technical and size differences.
     
  5. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Red Belt

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    Its just a way of making money for the gym. I dont agree at all with the main time slot for women classes only, but what I do agree with is all women classes. Some women are just not comfortable rolling with other men, plus it weeds out all the women who are just going to slow or water down class anyhow

    I dont see anything wrong with all womens classes, better to keep them separate anyway. (unless they are actually good)
     
  6. DoMn8

    DoMn8 Orange Belt

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    They'd have to make it free or pay women to train to negate the smell of ass-crack in my gym.
     
  7. Quipling

    Quipling Silver Belt

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    Female only classes can be a great idea, for a variety of reasons that should be obvious. Training with men can be uncomfortable, especially at first, men are frequently bigger and stronger, which can be discouraging, and there is frequently limited competitive skill to be gleaned from drilling with a partner who is literally two or three times stronger than you are, especially if you're a white (or even blue) belt.

    Female only classes that teach shitty self-defense are a bad idea for a variety of reasons. One of which is that shitty self-defense is terrible. The second is a sort of stupid stereotyping that women only like BJJ because of fear of rape/attack, when the reality is that they like BJJ for similar reasons to men who like BJJ. The second compounds the shitty stereotyping by making it patronizing as well.
     
  8. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    You shouldnt be mad that women get discounts, special classes, or seclusion. This does absolutely zero to hamper your success.

    What you should be angry about is how women get promoted faster than men based on a different criteria, yet reap the same or more benefits that come along with being an upper belt.

    It is the same as kids. Dont be mad that they get the Little Samurai class, A kids gi is $40, or their membership dues are half of what yours are. Be mad when an instructor makes a 16 yr old with less skill than you a purple belt or above.
     
  9. seatea

    seatea Black Belt

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    This has got nothing to do with affirmative action and everything to do with business.
     
  10. sb413197

    sb413197 Red Belt

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    I think the womens' classes make sense from an intro-perspective. I think a lot of women who have the potential to be great grapplers might never try it without those kinds of things.
     
  11. Matsukaze

    Matsukaze Blue Belt

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    I personally would rather roll with a woman than some hairy smelly pork chop eating caveman :icon_lol:
     
  12. Matsukaze

    Matsukaze Blue Belt

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    Kidding of course.. we have a good mix of both where I train and there's one 3 stripe blue belt that's a killa
     
  13. Thai Otoshi

    Thai Otoshi Gold Belt

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    It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint. You gotta give incentives to get most females on the mats in BJJ, including offering pure women's classes and such.

    Just as a lot of grapplers are in denial about how this shit looks to the Average Joe (in case anyone just can't put their finger on it... it looks like homoerotic gay man-love), it looks 2x worse to the Average Jane. Exchange kinda uncomfortable close contact with another dude with extremely uncomfortable close contact with a dude.

    The potential for abuse of this close contact by perverts is real. If there's any doubt, look at some of the responses to threads about rolling with women. Most guys might crack a joke or two, but you know damn well there are some creepers who WILL spend entirely too much in closed guard.
     
  14. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    women's-only classes can be a great, less-intimdating way to get ladies started. ladies seem to gravitate towards group learning activities (pottery, wine/paint classes, feminism, yoga, crafts, cooking, etc.) and group accountability keeps people around.

    not that ladies need to be coddled, but at a certain point the dimorphism is REALLY working in my favor. at a seminar saturday i paired up with a lady from our gym who fights in invicta. winning record, total badass/hardass, great work ethic, awesome technique. 105 pounds. 105 pounds of piss and vinegar and asskicking, but she's still half my size.

    i usually play games when i roll with the ladies. my default is only using my legs until they pass guard, and then only using my hands to push or pull. no collar grips, no wrist control, nothing. if i get to a dominant position, i hop back into guard or under mount or something and go again.

    it's not just the ladies though. at a certain point, you're either skilled enough or large enough to where you're constantly deciding how easy to take it on people. beasting into or out of things wins rolls, but you don't learn much.

    i'd like to hope my defense has gotten a lot better by forgoing the initiative during rolls. we do a lot of positional sparring at the gym so it's been a lot of under mount or with your back taken.

    now i see those positions as the bottom of the mountain. you can still reach the summit, you've just got to climb. if you climb a lot of mountains the hard way, it makes them really easy to climb when you osotogari a bitch and take a helicopter ride to the top.
     
  15. yetanother

    yetanother Black Belt

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    What are the benefits that upper belt females get?
     
  16. Osstopher McGi

    Osstopher McGi Green Belt

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    I don't roll with females; is that "special treatment" lol.

    We have a pretty even split between our current group of regular students male:female ratio and everybody is treated the same. YMMV though.
     
  17. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    I only really train with one girl and everybody rolls with her like she is one of the guys. Her first competition she placed at pans at purple, so it worked out for her
     
  18. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Lots of places give active military, firefighters and LEOs discounts. I don't mind discounts as a marketing ploy. Sucks I don't fit into any of those categories but I'm not mad.
     
  19. King Creatine

    King Creatine Purple Belt

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    It brings more people to the gym and doesn't impede me in any way, other than I don't always like being paired with new people because I don't gain as much from drilling/rolling with someone of my ability.

    Of course, that applies to new men as well.
     
  20. Ippwnage

    Ippwnage Banned Banned

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    to go off this, how about college student discounts or LEO/military discounts or old fuck discounts?

    women are 50% of the population. getting some of them is a big deal.

    in the end, we should be happy with women training bjj, they will have better fight in them and it is better than all that prissy shit they do. the more women the better.

    if there were like 10 women consistently there would be no need for a separate female class

    edit: i was beat to the punch
     

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