How do ITF TKD and WTF TKD sparring rules stack up VS....?

[aaron_mag]

Thanks for those pics Kyryllo. Very interesting.

Haha! After just spending some time in the HW forums I'm kinda missing those days.

*sniff* ahh the memories.

The sad thing about all those old martial arts magazines is that they had to come up with new articles every month about something which is really a simple thing. So you'd get cover stories on: "The DEVASTATING kicking arsenal of Moo Do Pho Quan Bak Sho." Then you'd flip through the pages and it would essentially be a front kick, a round kick, and side kick, etc, etc. Exactly the same as every other art.

Then there were all those video advertisements about learning ninja secrets and such.



Good memories.

EDIT:

Oh yeah. And I almost forgot the letters. They'd be hilarious. As bad as anything you'd see in the HW forum only immortalized in mass produced print. You'd get these people writing in saying: "How can you say Moo Do Pho Quan Bak Sho has devastating kicks. Obviously Sifu Li has never felt a TKD kick before!!!!"

Even as a teeny bopper I'd be shaking my head wondering how people could be so stupid. No wonder we find Rex from Rex Kwan Do so funny.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

The first WTF World Championships were held in 1973 and had formaly the same rules as today but the only protective gear was the chest protector filled with bamboo sticks. How ever the techniques that were used differed from todays', round houses to the body were a rare sight, axe kicks, side kicks and hook kicks were the norm. People got KOd left and right.

lol, bamboo sticks? wtf? You should beat them up and make them change to the old ways when people got KTFO.

 

[WatcH OuT]

The first WTF World Championships were held in 1973 and had formaly the same rules as today but the only protective gear was the chest protector filled with bamboo sticks. How ever the techniques that were used differed from todays', round houses to the body were a rare sight, axe kicks, side kicks and hook kicks were the norm. People got KOd left and right.

I can imaging taking a kick full force in your face, ko's are nothing new.

Even nowadays on tournaments, you see one KO after the other even with the head gear on...

 

[WatcH OuT]

lol, bamboo sticks? wtf? You should beat them up and make them change to the old ways when people got KTFO.

We had some hogu's with some sort of bamboo sticks, it was just plastic sticks that could bench.

 

[Reveen]

WTF footwork is better than ITF or KK. The problem with a lot of the current generation of WTF guys is that they don't think outside the square; they forget that in the real world(or even the world of kickboxing) their opponent will be using low kicks, head punches etc. I blame the Olympics: although it has brought great exposure to the art, it has also caused it to be watered down(sadly, the McDojo comments are accurate of many schools). I know a few people that start training in WTF 30-40 years ago and while their technique is the same, the way they fight is completely different ie hands up, low kicks, elbows, knees.

 

[Masahiko_Kimura]

Here are some ITF sparring videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfq9NDgbGqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GfLpz5nlbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZBaHsHc1Hs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmSzAeO76es
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntyhftCafhQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf88FRwVba0

 

[EE6_TBOIO_MATb]

About KK and WTF TKD :if u don't train using punches to the head, u don't know how to punch to the head, or to avoid/foresee a punch to the head.

So know, KK guys don't know how to punch to the head.

 

[Ryo]

About KK and WTF TKD :if u don't train using punches to the head, u don't know how to punch to the head, or to avoid/foresee a punch to the head.

So know, KK guys don't know how to punch to the head.

Even though punches to the face are banned in KK competition. Many dojo's do put on gloves and train them. Also, there are different offshoots of KK where head punches are legal and trained extensively.

 

[Taekyon]

...The problem with a lot of the current generation of WTF guys is that they don't think outside the square; they forget that in the real world(or even the world of kickboxing) their opponent will be using low kicks, head punches etc. I blame the Olympics: although it has brought great exposure to the art, it has also caused it to be watered down(sadly, the McDojo comments are accurate of many schools). I know a few people that start training in WTF 30-40 years ago and while their technique is the same, the way they fight is completely different ie hands up, low kicks, elbows, knees.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "problem." Most competitive WTF TKD guys are athletes competing and training for Taekwondo (a sport-which I believe is a more practical function of martial arts today), to say that they don't think outside of the square is to completely miss the point that they aren't training for "outside of the square." Most boxers don't spend time in their training to do "self defense" drills or spar with a "on the streets" mentality; they're training for the sport of boxing. Kickboxers/Judokas/BJJers/wrestlers and any other athlete of any other sport are the same. Thus it's unfair to expect WTF TKD athletes to train in a more complete manner when it's unnecessary for their sport.

Though to bring the post back to the original topic, does WTF TKD transition to more "realistic" combat? Not really, not very well without heavy cross training, but that's obvious. If you're going to transition from WTF TKD to kickboxing, you're going to be doing more and more training that's more and more like kickboxing.

One thing I'd like to add that the original poster didn't consider. Stamina/endurance. Most ITF rulesets I've read and seen (notwithstanding variations) have two 2 minute rounds with 1 minute rest in between (5 minutes match total). Whereas WTF TKD is always three 3 minute rounds with 1 minute rests in between (11 minutes match total).

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

The sad thing about all those old martial arts magazines is that they had to come up with new articles every month about something which is really a simple thing. So you'd get cover stories on: "The DEVASTATING kicking arsenal of Moo Do Pho Quan Bak Sho." Then you'd flip through the pages and it would essentially be a front kick, a round kick, and side kick, etc, etc. Exactly the same as every other art.

Then there were all those video advertisements about learning ninja secrets and such.



Good memories.

EDIT:

Oh yeah. And I almost forgot the letters. They'd be hilarious. As bad as anything you'd see in the HW forum only immortalized in mass produced print. You'd get these people writing in saying: "How can you say Moo Do Pho Quan Bak Sho has devastating kicks. Obviously Sifu Li has never felt a TKD kick before!!!!"

Even as a teeny bopper I'd be shaking my head wondering how people could be so stupid. No wonder we find Rex from Rex Kwan Do so funny.

Yeah I like how they had all these textbook defenses in there broken down into simple 1-2-3 steps, most of which wouldnt work. They always taught you to try to grab peoples punches when they swung at you which is ridiculous.

 

[WedgeX]

I got in a street fight with an ITF guy over this arguement one time and he ended up in the hospital... not that that proves anything, but it sure felt good to shut him up...

Before I actually signed up I went around to alot of dojo's and checked them out for a few weeks.

I took alot into account before I joined.. the Instructors personalities, what they worked on, who was in the class, what they trained, how hard they trained etc etc... one of the ITF instructors was a total douchebag.. but it was probly the better of the 2 ITF schools as far as variety of skills

I looked at 2 ITF schools and 1 WTF school and ended up in WTF.

Years later I considered switching to ITF but changed my mind when they told me the punching was not full contact... actually one reason I wanted to switch to ITF was because I felt having been in WTF for a few years I had an edge over everyone there as far as kicking, footwork and sparring - from what I saw in the classes I took that was quite true... I took classes in ITF for a short while but didn't feel the training was very intense.

Over the years alot of former ITF black belts in my WTF school told me that ITF doesn't teach you how to fight 'only how to kick' .. I can't say thats true but I've heard alot of the same things from former ITF people over the years who had switched. Technically ITF seems to have less angles of attack - the sidekick is used sooooo much to simply keep the other guy away from you... and I dont know why the hand techniques are not that good - But boxing is basically the best way to punch in general and anything that isn't boxing isn't very efficient.

I have a friend who's been in ITF and I tried many times to convince him to come over to WTF to try it .. and after a class he tells me its the best workout he's ever had and I laugh because its just standard normal class for me that I'm used too.... and he's a really top quality ITF guy.



Personally I look at my TKD more as a style of boxing than anything ... its like amateur boxing with kicks...... there is a place for kicking in fighting but only to the extent that the opponent lets you.

Boxing is plenty realistic unless the opponent wants to wrap his arms around your waist and take you down.... TKD is effective until the opponent decides his goal is to try to grab your leg every time you throw a kick, God forbid.

 

[Guestx]

yea but their ability to punch to the head has nothing to do with their Kk training. And btw... in real fighting people swing at your head. Professional fighters punch you in your face, drunk untrained punks punch at your head.

That's true, but I think that if you always train to target the chest then you'll eventually work that into muscle memory and actually train yourself away from human instinct.