How can you score round 1 or 3 for Finney?

JoeRowe

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In round 1 Finney landed 0(!) significant strikes and had 0 sub attempts. Valentin landed 6 significant strikes(infinitely more from a % perspective) & more than doubled Finney in total strikes.

Takedowns are nothing more than a change of position, it's what you do with the takedown that scores. 0 effective grappling & less effective striking than his opponent.

Round 3 should be self explanatory as Valentin outlanded Finney 65-1 in total strikes, yet somehow the official sherdog live scorers all gave this Round to Finney as well!

WTF are we doing?
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All three judges gave round 3 to Valentin, so that's not very controversial.

I would not agree with the blanket statement that Finney's takedowns in round 1 were pure changes of position. They were more than arguably slams which incurred damage, and which are properly scored.
 
Rd 1 was purely due to his high-amplitude slams. Extremely weird performance from Finney though, you'd think he'd at least try to hurt the other dude at one point or another instead of just spending so much energy going for takedowns that lead to little more than stalling.

I know he's somewhat chinny (Panferov rocked him a bunch, and that's a very low level guy) and he's always giving up height at MW, but you're not gonna get much done by being so one-dimensional and non-threatening.
 
Round 3 you can't. Valentin won that all day. Round 1 though... I think you have to remember that "significant strike" is an effectively meaningless term at the end of the day. It's just something that the UFC statisticians come up with and arbitrarily decide on in the moment. It has no bearing on scoring.

People forget that techniques are scored by their impactful results. What impactful results did Valentin achieve with his strikes in Rounds 1 and 2? Sure, Finney didn't really mount attacks from his takedowns, but at least he effectively neutered his opponent's offense and dictated the pace & location at which the fight took place whilst achieving advantageous positions... that sounds like nominally "Effective Grappling", albeit the most absolutely low-level and boring style of such.

If Valentin had been splitting Finney open from the bottom with elbows or rocking him with upkicks/hammerfists or something, absolutely give him those fucking rounds. But the fact that he nominally landed X amount more (utterly ineffective) strikes because a spreadsheet tells us he did and thus did "MOAR DAMAGE" is a pretty silly way of determining that he won a fight IMO... it's ironically dragging the dreaded CompuBox logic of Tony Weeks' beloved sport into the UFC.

In addition, it's pretty well-established that when nothing much happens in the Effective Striking/Grappling or when the two are about equal, you go to the secondary and then tertiary scoring criteria of Effective Aggression followed thereafter by Octagon Control. I guess you could make an argument that Valentin was "more aggressive" because he was throwing more strikes and these had more chance to create an opening to finish the fight, but I don't think that holds water because Finney had all the forward pressure, executed a high-amplitude slam or two (something we have seen have fight-finishing implications), and again the qualifier is effective while Robert's strikes in Round 1 were anything but. Once you get to Octagon Control it's no contest, all Finney.

Furthermore, things like Dominance & Duration are part of the scoring metrics. Dominance explicitly states that you look for a fighter to set up impactful strikes/submission attacks from dominant positions rather than simply holding said positions, but then goes on to state that this is merely the primary thing a judge should be looking for and that a fighter can still assert Dominance in an MMA scoring context by consistently keeping their opponent in a "defensive or reactive mode" through constant positional changes. Finney more or less did that in Round 1 with his mat returns. This isn't even mentioning Duration, which states that the time spent "effectively attacking, controlling, or impacting one's opponent" is part of the scoring criteria.

At the end of the day, a big part of me expected this to happen after Valentin got fucked up by Loder. I picked Rob to win on a hunch and was sort of rooting for him, but I don't feel like he did. The guy got smushed for 10 minutes. I don't mind giving him Round 1 and you can certainly make an argument for doing so... but I don't think that those strikes he was landing were sufficiently "impactful and effective" to make up for getting tossed around like an unruly child and pancaked against the cage for minutes at a time. Especially since "cumulative impact" is a thing per the Rules, getting mat-returned hurts, and having your energy reserves sapped by what the other guy is doing to you is also scoreable.
 
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We go through this shit every time there’s a fight like this. In rd 1, Finney took dude down 5 times, and was in control of the fight for 4:34 of a 5 minute round. Landing a few “significant strikes” does not outweigh that, unless they were like, massive shots that busted a guy up and put him in danger. That didn’t ever happen in this fight. To think that these types of punches should outweigh 4:34 of control time is a misunderstanding of the scoring criteria.
 
Maybe we should appeal MVP vs Garry decision, since his wrestling doesn't count
 
No way some weak ass take down did more damage than elbows to the dome. Crotch sniffers out in full force tonight.
 
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