Houston, We Have a Problem ... Rogan and Cruz Say The System MUST Change

[ReadWrite]

Don't Leave It in The Hands of Idiots

Following Jones’ controversial win, Rogan and Cruz waxed poetic on the PPV broadcast (per ESPN) about the problems with the 10-point MUST scoring system and how it can be fixed to better work for MMA.

“It’s unfortunate,” Rogan said, “because it’s one of the biggest sports in the world [and], in my opinion, it’s the most exciting sport in the world.”

“A lot of money on the line and the judging is...” Cruz continued.

“Incompetent judging,” said Rogan. “Incompetent judging and a poor system. If we got together the best minds in mixed martial arts, the best journalists and fighters and they tried to figure out a way where we can agree on some sort of scoring system that makes more sense, it would be nice.”

“We need to work together with these commissions,” Cruz added, “and they’ve got to let us in. They won’t let us in. They want to control everything and that’s the issue. Why can’t we just all work together towards one common goal of creating an amazing sport? That’s what we need to do and stop being separate. The commission is here, we’re here. No -- we’re all one.”

“Clearly it’s a giant issue with people judging that really don’t understand martial arts,” Rogan concluded. “They have judged boxing. Boxing you’re dealing with two weapons, a variety of ways of using them, but two weapons. With mixed martial arts, there’s just so much more to it.”

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/2/...lament-mma-judging-criteria-following-ufc-247

 

[Lukn4trbl]

You have to wonder, if all of this backlash is what Dana/UFC want?

Look at all of the exposure they're getting from the idiot, judges!

I'm all for retired fighters getting licensed for judge duty, and maybe even an
unofficial online fan poll for kicks.

 

[Can’t Handle My Riddum]

Didn’t Dana say about the winner, “Who gives a shit?”.

Doesn’t that say it all?

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

It was a close fight,

Having it 3-2 either way made sense. Unless someone is KTFO a fight is viewed subjectively, some more obvious than others..but subjective nonetheless.

4-1 guy should be fired though.

 

[TimberGhost]

Joe & Dom are right, props to them for speaking up against the establishment and their boss.

 

[loisestrad]

The problem is, first and foremost, that there's no way to rightfully judge a close fight. Is a takedown that leads to nothing except for the takedown itself, more meaningful than a stiff jab to the jaw?

It's literally impossible to say.

It's a huuuge problem also that when everyone agrees that a fight is close, they're calling for a judge to be fired cuz he scored it 4-1 and not 3-2.

People, if rounds are close to the point that everyone are literally disaggreing who won them, you can't fault someone for scoring the fight 4-1. As was the case with the Jones- Reyes fight.

 

[loisestrad]

4-1 guy should be fired though.

No, why? People are disagreeing if Jones won the second, the third. Why should someone be fired cause he thought Jones won both? Cause 4-1 looks bad in a fight that was close? 4-1 would be bad if the fight was judged as WHOLE, cuz it would make it seem like a dominant win.

But fights aren't scored that way.

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

No, why? People are disagreeing if Jones won the second, the third. Why should someone be fired cause he thought Jones won both? Cause 4-1 looks bad in a fight that was close? 4-1 would be bad if the fight was judged as WHOLE, cuz it would make it seem like a dominant win.

But fights aren't.

It seemed not only obvious to me but evert single media member and his fellow judges that there was only one round in it.

I understand its not scored as a whole, but in some circumstances you expect a degree of consistency in how rounds are scored - reasoning from that, to me, I don't think that judge knew what the fuck he was looking at.

Spoiler: But what do I know..

I didn't even watch the fight

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Dana will bitch publicly, but privately why would he care?

In the press he's all "it's terrible, things must change!" ... for decades. Nothing gets done.

It's not as if he doesn't have the position and power to wage a campaign to make change happen.

He just doesn't really care.

 

[Superzorro]

The problem is, first and foremost, that there's no way to rightfully judge a close fight. Is a takedown that leads to nothing except for the takedown itself, more meaningful than a stiff jab to the jaw?

It's literally impossible to say.

It's a huuuge problem also that when everyone agrees that a fight is close, they're calling for a judge to be fired cuz he scored it 4-1 and not 3-2.

People, if rounds are close to the point that everyone are literally disaggreing who won them, you can't fault someone for scoring the fight 4-1. As was the case with the Jones- Reyes fight.

No, why? People are disagreeing if Jones won the second, the third. Why should someone be fired cause he thought Jones won both? Cause 4-1 looks bad in a fight that was close? 4-1 would be bad if the fight was judged as WHOLE, cuz it would make it seem like a dominant win.

But fights aren't scored that way.

I don’t think the forum is ready for this conversation.

 

[SKYNET]

... if rounds are close to the point that everyone are literally disaggreing who won them, you can't fault someone for scoring the fight 4-1. As was the case with the Jones- Reyes fight.

 

[loisestrad]

It seemed not only obvious to me but evert single media member and his fellow judges that there was only one round in it.

From what I gather, some people thought Jones won the second, some thought he lost. Some thought he won the third, some thought he lost.

Point being, if the rounds are that close, it's not a crime to think he won them both. Nor would it have been a crime had Reyes won them.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

Obviously the only way to beat Jon Jones is by finishing him


the day that happens Sherdawg will experience full meltdown and implode

 

[pseto223]

There is one problem in MMA scoring and it is the lack of 10:10 rounds. An extremely close round should be scored 10:10, not being coin tossed to one of the fighters or the other. Judges are used doing that from boxing, because there are 12 rounds in a title fight and if you do several coin tosses, most of the time they equal to 50:50 and there is a somewhat fair result at the end. In MMA you toss the coin 2 times and completely changes a decision.

But yet again there is no way to devise a good system when there is a human judging. There are numerous sports with judges, the systems are very different from one another and still there isn't a single sport with judges without big fuckups.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

From what I gather, some people thought Jones won the second, some thought he lost. Some thought he won the third, some thought he lost.

Point being, if the rounds are that close, it's not a crime to think he won them both. Nor would it have been a crime had Reyes won them.

I get your argument. I also can see the argument for rounds 2 and 3 being relatively similar. If you give one of the rounds to jones, you should probably give him both, as they played out quite similarly.

At the same time I had it 3-2 reyes after watching it back. Though initially I had it 3-2 jones. Your point stands though that I don’t think either way it was necessarily botched.

As many have agreed the biggest culprit is the system for allowing these situations to arise seemingly every single event

 

[San Griente]

Don't Leave It in The Hands of Idiots

Following Jones’ controversial win, Rogan and Cruz waxed poetic on the PPV broadcast (per ESPN) about the problems with the 10-point MUST scoring system and how it can be fixed to better work for MMA.

“It’s unfortunate,” Rogan said, “because it’s one of the biggest sports in the world [and], in my opinion, it’s the most exciting sport in the world.”

“A lot of money on the line and the judging is...” Cruz continued.

“Incompetent judging,” said Rogan. “Incompetent judging and a poor system. If we got together the best minds in mixed martial arts, the best journalists and fighters and they tried to figure out a way where we can agree on some sort of scoring system that makes more sense, it would be nice.”

“We need to work together with these commissions,” Cruz added, “and they’ve got to let us in. They won’t let us in. They want to control everything and that’s the issue. Why can’t we just all work together towards one common goal of creating an amazing sport? That’s what we need to do and stop being separate. The commission is here, we’re here. No -- we’re all one.”

“Clearly it’s a giant issue with people judging that really don’t understand martial arts,” Rogan concluded. “They have judged boxing. Boxing you’re dealing with two weapons, a variety of ways of using them, but two weapons. With mixed martial arts, there’s just so much more to it.”

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/2/...lament-mma-judging-criteria-following-ufc-247

What a bunch of horseshit.

“All working together” is the SOURCE of the problem.

If you want to call it a problem.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

From what I gather, some people thought Jones won the second, some thought he lost. Some thought he won the third, some thought he lost.

Point being, if the rounds are that close, it's not a crime to think he won them both. Nor would it have been a crime had Reyes won them.

"Some people" is misleading. In a population as large as the MMA community, you are always going to have people going against the grain.

IIRC, the Sherdog poll had about 10 percent and 20 percent or so for Jones winning rounds three and two (at least the last time I looked). It's not especially contested by the masses. That's roughly in line with what I've seen outside of Sherdog as well (or at least implied by how people scored the fight as a whole).

Judges earn their compensation by correctly judging close and semi-close rounds. Not by rubber stamping obvious 10-9 and 10-8 rounds for the correct guy.

 

[MeatWagon06]

Dana will bitch publicly, but privately why would he care?

In the press he's all "it's terrible, things must change!" ... for decades. Nothing gets done.

It's not as if he doesn't have the position and power to wage a campaign to make change happen.

He just doesn't really care.

How do you know nothing gets done?? Refs & fighters no longer work with the UFC over dumb shit he’s publicly bitched about. If Texas wants the revenue of a sold out UFC event that dude will not be judging again.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

How do you know nothing gets done?? Refs & fighters no longer work with the UFC over dumb shit he’s publicly bitched about. If Texas wants the revenue of a sold out UFC event that dude will not be judging again.

We golf together twice a month.

 

[loisestrad]

"Some people" is misleading. In a population as large as the MMA community, you are always going to have people going against the grain.

IIRC, the Sherdog poll had about 10 percent and 20 percent or so for Jones winning rounds three and two (at least the last time I looked). It's not especially contested by the masses. That's roughly in line with what I've seen outside of Sherdog as well (or at least implied by how people scored the fight as a whole).

Judges earn their compensation by correctly judging close and semi-close rounds. Not by rubber stamping obvious 10-9 and 10-8 rounds for the correct guy.

What's missing in a poll is the rounds being close. What's also missing is people leaning more towards Jones losing, cuz you're always more inclined to state your voice if you're pissed off.

I'm not saying Jones didn't lose those rounds. They were close. I'm saying it's not a reason for a judge to be called incompetent that he had Jones winning both, and not just one of them.