Television HOUSE OF THE DRAGON Season 2

[BJ@LW&WW]

this season seems to have a lot of criticism, but i thoroughly enjoyed it and it brought back feelings of the good Got seasons.

There certainly were one too many redundant scenes with royal children wanting to do shit and being told no, but i was generally entertained.



i think coming in with low expectations helped

 

[Jose Beehive]

Uh, LOL, no, no it isn't. WTF are you talking about?

The rating for the S2 finale on IMDb is down to a 6.4, which is a subpar score for any old episode on small shows outside of primetime, and straight up dogshit for a finale to a glamour-class TV series with a 9-digit seasonal budget. And if you try to field the defense clinging to semi-positive scores for individual earlier episodes, you're making a fool of yourself, because that isn't how people sum their judgements of the overarching narrative. The dissatisfaction with the finale demonstrates that people are dissatisfied with the show. They don't like the story anymore. They didn't approve of the season.

Also, only those with a vacuum of knowledge would fall for it. Because if you get cute with this, it's easy to show that S7 of Game of Tehrones was-- on the whole-- more positively reviewed when not just S2, but also S1 of House of Dragons. Now, tell me, do you believe the mainstream consensus on S7 of GoT today is that it was a good season? That people really liked it? If you forward this, again, you're just making an ass of yourself.

Chart TV Show Ratings for an Entire Series | TV Charts

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Chart TV Show Ratings for an Entire Series | TV Charts

Chart TV Show Ratings for an Entire Series. Search for current or past TV shows and find their IMDb ratingfor all episodes.

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The season is rated 4.4 by Users on Metacritic. That's the honest rating. Spare me the "review bombing" excuse. Tell me how that fared for Star Wars: The Acolyte and every other show that came before it. Also, pretty please, try to quote the 74% score of 3.5*+ from the audience on RottenTomatoes (which isn't even impressive). Weird discrepancy, right? Oh wait, that's because RottenTomatoes is owned by WarnerBros Media. And HBO is owned by...WarnerBros Media. Yeah, I'm sure there's no review culling there.

So do you agree with what I was initially responding to that the last 2 seasons of GOT are considered masterpieces compared to the first 2 of HOTD?

I would consider the consensus of reviews i've seen for HOTD season 1 and 2 positive having read many on the entire season that don't give a score necessarily, also much anecdotal from people I speak to on and offline... I would consider the mean off of TV Charts 7.775 for season 2 and the mean of 8.73 for season 1 better data than assuming how people judge shows.
Mean for GOT Season 7 is 9 , Season 8 is 6.4.

8 year lasting show based of hugely popular book GOT last 2 Season's Total added together =
15.4

HOTD based on spin off book first two Season's added together =
16.505


Essentially though, I feel there are too many factors that yourself and I haven't considered in our positions that make it all opinion based at the end of the day, amount of people voted/reviewers, time frame, information on voters/reviewers, book readers vs not book readers, sample size on each episode, completed series vs not complete series, review bombing etc etc.

 

[blaseblase]

The last two seasons of GOT which received tons of hate are masterpieces compared to the first two seasons of this shit.

Seasons 7 and 8 of GoT are absolute trash.

Season 1 of House of the Dragon was excellent, both critical acclaimed and has a high audience rating. Lol they aren't even remotely on the same level.

Season 2 is slow and meandering, but not the dumpster fire that was the rushed last two seasons of GoT. An epic battle in episode 6 would have saved House of the Dragons Season 2, there was no saving Game of Thrones last season.

 

[Madmick]

So you agree with what I was initially responding to that the last 2 season of GOT are considered masterpieces compared to the first 2 of HOTD?

I don't agree with either of you.

S1 HOD > S7 GoT >>>> S2 HOD >> S8 GoT

I would consider the consensus of reviews i've seen for HOTD season 1 and 2 positive

And I just showed you that, but whatever, I can see your fingers are in your ears.

having read many on the entire season that don't give a score necessarily, also much anecdotal from people I speak to on and offline... I would consider the mean off of TV Charts 7.775 for season 2 and the mean of 8.73 for season one better data than assuming how people judge shows.

Your feelings aren't facts. Again, I just explained to you why means compiled from per-episode ratings don't correspond to the overall reception that people feel for entire seasons. This is why those who collect data aggregrate ratings of episodes separately from seasons, and seasons from entire showruns. It's why you'll find that surveys of artists/critics asking, "What was the best movie of the decade" will often produce starkly different lists than if you just averaged the means of critic or public ratings for movies as they appear at the top of filtered lists for the year at websites like Rottentomatoes, Metacritic, or IMDb. Context becomes king.

As I just higlighted, if you take the mean of per-episode ratings for S7 of Game of Thrones, then it scores a 9.0. Isn't that fun? Do you believe that reflects the consensus felt by the public towards that season today? Of course not. Now, I do believe it is superior to S2 of House of Dragons, there's no question about that, and this shows up in that mean average because you're comparing apples to apples. But the mean average doesn't reflect people's feelings about the seasons as a whole.

Mean for GOT season 7 is 9 , 8 is 6.4.

8 year lasting show based of hugely popular book GOT last 2 season Total
15.4

HOTD based on spin off book first two season Total
16.505

Essentially though, I feel there are too many factors that I and yourself haven't considered in our positions that make it all opinion based at the end of the day, amount of people voted/reviewers, time frame, information on voters/reviewers/book readers vs not book readers etc etc.

No, there's not too many factors. It's a shit season, people hate it, and you're an ostrich burying your head in the sand if you're ignoring that. Just look at the reactions in this thread. Take those fingers out of your ears.

 

[Jose Beehive]

I don't agree with either of you.

S1 HOD > S7 GoT >>>> S2 HOD >> S8 GoT


And I just showed you that, but whatever, I can see your fingers are in your ears.

Your feelings aren't facts. Again, I just explained to you why means compiled from per-episode ratings don't correspond to the overall reception that people feel for entire seasons. This is why those who collect data aggregrate ratings of episodes separately from seasons, and seasons from entire showruns. It's why you'll find that surveys of artists/critics asking, "What was the best movie of the decade" will often produce starkly different lists than if you just averaged the means of critic or public ratings for movies as they appear at the top of filtered lists for the year at websites like Rottentomatoes, Metacritic, or IMDb. Context becomes king.

As I just higlighted, if you take the mean of per-episode ratings for S7 of Game of Thrones, then it scores a 9.0. Isn't that fun? Do you believe that reflects the consensus felt by the public towards that season today? Of course not. Now, I do believe it is superior to S2 of House of Dragons, there's no question about that, and this shows up in that mean average because you're comparing apples to apples. But the mean average doesn't reflect people's feelings about the seasons as a whole.

No, there's not too many factors. It's a shit season, people hate it, and you're an ostrich burying your head in the sand if you're ignoring that. Just look at the reactions in this thread. Take those fingers out of your ears.

Fair, just seemed odd you getting all antsy and attacking my post rather than the opposite side, especially with the amount of frustration you seem to have found in what I said to a response to a far more ridiculous and obvious troll take imo.

"you're making a fool of yourself,"
"And if you try to field the defense clinging to semi-positive scores for individual earlier episodes"
"If you forward this, again, you're just making an ass of yourself."
" Spare me the "review bombing" excuse"
All comes across super salty and assumptive to me.

--

You haven't shown me the extent of the reviews I'VE SEEN. How can I be wrong, you don't know what i've read.
You said
" The dissatisfaction with the finale demonstrates that people are dissatisfied with the show. They don't like the story anymore."
What qualifies this? Plenty people dissatisfied with the finale can find nuance in enjoying earlier moment's in the season, how can that not be considered?

--
I'm not following, obviously different websites produce different results? because it's all opinion obviously and there are multiple factors like I mentioned that you have written off, reviewing art in general can never be a factual thing. In which case this just becomes your opinion vs my opinion.

--

Some people hate everything, never said it was loved by all... there's plenty of good reviews in here too, you using Sherdog's Demographic in this thread is exactly as useful to your argument as what i'm doing using mean scores. jack shit.
Even the very opinion of what is considered a good score is subjective, 6,7,8 nothing factual here.

 

[NickNick]

I wouldn't have been as angry with season 2 if they weren't doing 2+ years between seasons. If season 2 ended with the two major plot points people expected, then it would have been acceptable (even with a 2 year wait.)

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Seasons 7 and 8 of GoT are absolute trash.

Season 1 of House of the Dragon was excellent, both critical acclaimed and has a high audience rating. Lol they aren't even remotely on the same level.

Season 2 is slow and meandering, but not the dumpster fire that was the rushed last two seasons of GoT. An epic battle in episode 6 would have saved House of the Dragons Season 2, there was no saving Game of Thrones last season.

Critics are pretty much swamp trash at this point. Ratings are comedy nowadays. Mediocre shit gets 85-95% on rotten tomatoes. As i stated before, peoples expectations have dropped significantly in the past decade and a bit when it comes to film/tv. Season 2 would put a coked up jon jones to sleep. There is literally zero true likeable characters. I thought Daemon was good but then season 2 came along and I began to hate his character as well. Theres seriously zilch for entertainment value. Id rather watch that other trash show people seem to rave about...yellowstone.

 

[Madmick]

Fair, just seemed odd you getting all antsy and attacking my post rather than the opposite side, especially with the amount of frustration you seem to have found in what I said to a response to a far more ridiculous and obvious troll take imo.

Because this is a thread about HoD, not GoT, and the "opposite side" was shitting on HoD2, it wasn't even saying GoT S7-S8 was good, which if it had been would represent a "side" that has been utterly defeated, that's 'settled science', so there's little point in my beating a dead horse, but he didn't, he was just saying GoT S7-S8 was a masterpiece in comparison because this season is bad. His viewpoint of GoT S7-S8 implicitly is that they're bad, so he's got the big picture. There's little point in quibbling over what's better between a shit salad and a turd sandwich.

Only you are saying something truly dumb. By trying to tell us this season of HoD wasn't that bad, and people received it "mostly positively". GTFO. That's far easier to contend to with S7 of GoT (with its 9.0 mean episode vote) than HoD S2 (with its 7.75 mean vote you tried using as a refuge).

 

[Jose Beehive]

Because this is a thread about HoD, not GoT, and the "opposite side" was shitting on HoD2, it wasn't even saying GoT S7-S8 was good, which if it had been would represent a "side" that has been utterly defeated, that's 'settled science', so there's little point in my beating a dead horse, but he didn't, he was just saying GoT S7-S8 was a masterpiece in comparison because this season is bad. His viewpoint of GoT S7-S8 implicitly is that they're bad, so he's got the big picture. There's little point in quibbling over what's better between a shit salad and a turd sandwich.

Only you are saying something truly dumb. By trying to tell us this season of HoD wasn't that bad, and people received it "mostly positively". GTFO. That's far easier to contend to with S7 of GoT (with its 9.0 mean episode vote) than HoD S2 (with its 7.75 mean vote you tried using as a refuge).

7.75 is shit, that’s news to me. I’ve always assumed 6.4 was average.

 

[Madmick]

7.75 is shit, that’s news to me. I’ve always assumed 6.4 was average.

You determined to walk in this circle? 9.0 is "great".

I just got done explaining this to you. Context matters with numbers. Per-episode means can be really dumb, and don't tell you how people felt about a season.

 

[Jose Beehive]

You determined to walk in this circle? 9.0 is "great".

I just got done explaining this to you. Context matters with numbers. Per-episode means can be really dumb, and don't tell you how people felt about a season.

Yet the context I provided on factors like time since release, number of said voters, people who have read the book vs not etc etc is irrelevant, I see.

 

[Madmick]

Yet the context I provided on factors like time since release, number of said voters, people who have read the book vs not etc etc is irrelevant, I see.

Because I'm not wasting my time on pointless conjecture. For example, where do you have any data on the average ratings of those who read the books vs. those who didn't?

Also, newsflash, ratings always go down after release. So the bad numbers you're seeing...they're only going to get worse. And 6.4 is way below the average on IMDb (the average differs significantly depending on what we're talking about). I'm not sure where you think you've said anything worth addressing.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Because I'm not wasting my time on pointless conjecture. For example, where do you have any data on the average ratings of those who read the books vs. those who didn't?

Also, newsflash, ratings always go down after release. So the bad numbers you're seeing...they're only going to get worse. And 6.4 is way below the average on IMDb (the average differs significantly depending on what we're talking about). I'm not sure where you think you've said anything worth addressing.

I don’t have data on that, buts it’s obviously a factor in what is the real truth of its audience perception .


IMDB average is 6.8 on movies according to a quick Google, can’t find a figure for TV shows .

 

[EndlessCritic]

HOTD season 1 was so refreshing in the manner in which the storytelling proceeded at warp-speed and advancing years (and decades) over episodes.

HOTD season 2 felt like more of a drag-on. Was the entire season like two weeks of actual time or what?

 

[blaseblase]

Critics are pretty much swamp trash at this point. Ratings are comedy nowadays. Mediocre shit gets 85-95% on rotten tomatoes. As i stated before, peoples expectations have dropped significantly in the past decade and a bit when it comes to film/tv. Season 2 would put a coked up jon jones to sleep. There is literally zero true likeable characters. I thought Daemon was good but then season 2 came along and I began to hate his character as well. Theres seriously zilch for entertainment value. Id rather watch that other trash show people seem to rave about...yellowstone.

Maybe it's you whose opinion is shit if everyone else feels differently. Seasons 7 and 8 were utter trash. The early seasons built up good characters who turned into compete idiots who acted irrationally.

I don't get your complaint about Daemon, he fucked around at Harrenhall far too long for my liking but as a character he didn't change much. Compare that to the dumbing down of Tyrion, Baelish and Varys.

 

[Madmick]

I don’t have data on that, buts it’s obviously a factor in what is the real truth of its audience perception .

IMDB average is 6.8 on movies according to a quick Google, can’t find a figure for TV shows .

Nope, it's the average score for movies is up to 7.0, now (it's been going up for 15 years...it used to be ~6.4 while the median was 0.2 higher). TV ratings generally average half a point higher. That's why you'll find such a disproportionate number of TV shows ranked above 9.0 (or 8.0) compared to movies.

Even by the mean the public's reception towards the show is lukewarm. Roughly average. But, to reiterate, people form their ultimate conclusions about any work of art at its conclusion. The conclusion of the second season brought a dismal score, and that carries the sentiment of everyone's feeligs, as is so plain in this thread, towards the season writ large.

For context, consider that the 5th season of Star Trek Discovery, a show that took a franchise which launched it as one of the most watched shows in the world, and tanked that good faith until it ultimately dropped to the point that its season premiere was averaging fewer viewers than a rerun of Bull in the same time slot a few weeks earlier, just notched a 6.1 for its final episode.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Nope, it's the average score for movies is up to 7.0, now (it's been going up for 15 years...it used to be ~6.4 while the median was 0.2 higher). TV ratings generally average half a point higher. That's why you'll find such a disproportionate number of TV shows ranked above 9.0 (or 8.0) compared to movies.

Even by the mean the publics reception towards the show is lukewarm. Roughly average. But, to reiterate, people form their ultimate conclusions about any work of art at its conclusion. The conclusion of the second season brought a dismal score, and that carries the sentiment of everyone's feeligs, as is so plain in this thread, towards the season writ large.

For context, consider that the 5th season of Star Trek Discovery, a show that took a franchise which launched it as one of the most watched shows in the world, and tanked that good faith until it ultimately dropped to the point that its season premiere was averaging fewer viewers than a rerun of Bull in the same time slot a few weeks earlier, just notched a 6.1 for its final episode.

So essentially all reviews numbers are irrelevant and you can only go off of your gut and anecdotal scenario, and/or a bunch of flawed numbers that mean 0 but can be used in a pointless Objective position like yourself if you're a stickler for using pointless numbers over common sense.. These guys who didn't finish the season with 0 knowledge on how to review things have by the numbers a stronger position than these people who review for a living who have context for the show having read the book.

I'm curious to know why you're certain the conclusion opinion overrides all else though? And also curious to how you got half a point higher on tv shows?

 

[Madmick]

So essentially all reviews numbers are irrelevant and you can only go off of your gut and anecdotal scenario, and/or a bunch of flawed numbers that mean 0 but can be used in a pointless Objective position like yourself if you're a stickler for using pointless numbers over common sense.. These guys who didn't finish the season with 0 knowledge on how to review things have by the numbers a stronger position than these people who review for a living who have context for the show having read the book.

I'm curious to know why you're certain the conclusion opinion overrides all else though? And also curious to how you got half a point higher on tv shows?

It's clear you're determined to ignore the knowledge and evidence provided to you, despite fumbling around and getting the wrong numbers with Google multiple times, and yet further will invent consensus among groups that are a figment of your imagination-- having provided no indication of where you're extracting the opinion of only those people who have read the books (nor have you defined which books you mean, GoT or HoD).

Fingers in the ears. See how that works out for you.

 

[Jose Beehive]

It's clear you're determined to ignore the knowledge and evidence provided to you, despite fumbling around and getting the wrong numbers with Google multiple times despite afforded the luxury of all the time required to research, and yet further will invent consensus among groups that are a figment of your imagination-- having provided no indication of where you're extracting the opinion of only those people who have read the books (nor have you defined which books you mean, GoT or HoD).

Fingers in the ears. See how that works out for you.

Nonsense, i've tried to find common ground on determining that numbered reviews are all a subjective masquerade.. Yet you are robotically double downing on finding objectivity in a subjective practice, holding weight on the numbers with 0 consideration for where the numbers come from, completely disregarding the range of possibilities in obvious factors that affect said data, no time for conjecture when it is all conjecture.
Doesn't matter which books, it was just a real example, you understood that review bombing was a factor and squashed it with a gut feeling, before I even brought it up(not that I was going to anyway) yet don't understand how any other detail can sway said numbers.

You haven't answered the questions from my last post, i've asked you for answers, yet I am the one with fingers in my ears? lol ridiculous.

My main points:
. Rating numbers are subjective, to the core of the number itself, some people consider 6 average, some 7, some X, some Y.

.There are varying factors in the audience who choose to vote, and also the timeframes and other details.

Your Points that I don't feel have been explained well or backed up, granted you have made some good points though:

.People judge series based on the last episodes(evidence?)
.Series get worse reviews the longer they are out(evidence?)
.Tv shows on average are considered half a point higher than films on IMDB, this differs supposedly but no explanation as to why and how(evidence?)
.People in this thread largely didn't enjoy the season(evidence?)
.7.75/10 is "shit" (Evidence?)

 

[Madmick]

People judge series based on the last episodes(evidence?)

You don't even comprehend the essence of what is being explained, here. This isn't a sitcom or a reality show or an old school monster-of-the-week sci-fis. HoD is an arc-based dramatic series, and the contention is the rating of the final episode in a season (or series) is far more important in summarizing the judgement of the respective whole of that arc by the audiences.

.Series get worse reviews the longer they are out(evidence?)

LOL, it's a phenomenon so widely recognized it's colloquially known as the "passion index" (many refer to "recency bias"). Happens to every show, good and bad. The fact you would challenge this demonstrates how ignorant you are to concepts you're awkwardly failing to debate. But sure, 'evidence'. Some examples:

• Game of Thrones scored 9.4 when the series ended. That is down to 9.2 today.
• The Walking Dead scored an 8.2 when the series ended. It's already down to 8.1 less than a year and a half later.
• Mr. Robot was at an 8.6 four years ago. It's at an 8.5 today.
• Daredevil was at an 8.7 when it ended. It's down to an 8.6 today.

You can do this for any movie or show. Any of them. It's baked into the "test of time". Conversely, can you give any examples of ratings that went up-- let's say 5+ years after-- a movie first aired, or a TV series ended?

Tv shows on average are considered half a point higher than films on IMDB, this differs supposedly but no explanation as to why and how(evidence?)

I'm not teaching you where to find averages, because I like you flailng in the dark, with only your personal bias to guide you, but I already cited an example of the TV series inflation over movies. It can be observed even at the top in the Top 250's, respectively (just as documentary shows tend to average higher than fictional series, or Miniseries as a group tend to average higher than serialized TV shows).

There are only 7 movies on the IMDb Top 250 with a score of 9.0+; only 55 with an 8.5+. Zero score a 9.5+.
There are a whopping 36 TV series on the IMDb Top 250 with a 9.0+; the entire Top 250 is at an 8.5+. There are two that are 9.5.

.People in this thread largely didn't enjoy the season(evidence?)

LOL, look at the overwhelming consensus since the season concluded. Pick a post range since the finale aired. Want to do a thumbs up thumbs down count?

.7.75/10 is "shit" (Evidence?)

Do you know where S2's 7.75 would rank among all shows since 2022? Since that time, IMDb has tracked a little over 4,400 new TV series. This score would rank it in the #1800-#1900 range. Now, since I know you'll attempt the dumb protest, "Well, that's above average, derp!", ignoring its obvious mediocrity, know this. Only about 1 out of 5 primetime shows are renewed for a second season. If it was any other series, with a more obscure IP, and that second season was the quality offered from the start, the odds are firmly that it would have been canceled.

Now your turn. You've been challenged twice to produce this: where is the evidence that those who have read the books, measured as a large group, score the series higher than those who haven't?

I'm waiting...