• Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it.

"Hope and Change" vs "Make America Great Again"

exHeavyHippie

Black Belt
@Black
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
7,090
Reaction score
0
I see a lot of people discounting Trump's "Make America Great Again" just like I saw a lot of people discounting Obama's "Hope and Change" of 2008.
Why are people so sure Trump will not rally the old white folks to turn out like Obama was able to rally the youth and black vote?
 
I see a lot of people discounting Trump's "Make America Great Again" just like I saw a lot of people discounting Obama's "Hope and Change" of 2008.
Why are people so sure Trump will not rally the old white folks to turn out like Obama was able to rally the youth and black vote?

Obama didn't rally the youth or black vote. And Trump has a chance, but he's swimming upstream.
 
I'm not sure, and I think my fellow liberals are underestimating him. We're talking extreme turnout, and more disenfranchised republican voters than I expected. And the Hispanic vote may not really be where the polls are showing it to be. I haven't heard anybody explain away the Nevada result to my satisfaction yet. We can't ignore that Hispanics are not very favorable toward illegal immigration. The illegals aren't voting- plenty of conservative Catholics are though. Trump has stepped on his own dick so many times, yet his popularity isn't going away. He's a major threat in a general election in my opinion. Of course I hope I'm completely wrong.
 
Obama didn't rally the youth or black vote. And Trump has a chance, but he's swimming upstream.
That's interesting being that the 2008 white vote was down 1% while the black vote was up 4%. No rally?
Youth vote up 4% from 2004 to 2008 compared to a 1% drop in 30+. No rally?
 
Last edited:
That's interesting being that the 2008 white vote was down 1% while the black vote was up 4%. No rally?
Youth vote up 14% from 2004 to 2008. No rally?
I would say he definitely got more young people and black people out voting. Being an actual young black person at the time I heard of a lot of people that went out to vote for him that had never voted before.
 
That's interesting being that the 2008 white vote was down 1% while the black vote was up 4%. No rally?
Youth vote up 14% from 2004 to 2008. No rally?

The black vote just continued its trend in 2008, and the trend flattened in 2012. Can you site the youth vote claim? That's very different from what I've seen, but it could hinge on the definition.
 
Last edited:
The black vote just continued its trend in 2008, and the trend flattened in 2012. Can you site the youth vote claim? That's very different from what I've seen, but it could hinge on the definition.
I cannot as it was bad info (will edit). It was a 4% increase for 18-29 compared to again a 1% drop in 30+.
 
I cannot as it was bad info (will edit). It was a 4% increase for 18-29 compared to again a 1% drop in 30+.

I found this chart:

Screen%20shot%202012-04-23%20at%205.47.17%20PM.png


Doesn't seem like we can really give Obama a lot of credit for rallying the youth vote, IMO, though it is a bit of a bounce.
 
I found this chart:

Screen%20shot%202012-04-23%20at%205.47.17%20PM.png


Doesn't seem like we can really give Obama a lot of credit for rallying the youth vote, IMO, though it is a bit of a bounce.
How about that generation "we dont give a fuck" from 1984 to 2004......
 
Well, we will certainly know how big a draw he was to the demos come November as there is no way he is on the ballot. But I will hold firm on my belief that the rally of the youth and black voters is what got him in the White House, along with with old white folks not voting, which I predict will turn around sharply if Trump is the nominee. You can't go into a Shoney's without see four or five old guys wearing their "Make America Great Again" hat. That coupled with old folks figuring out Facebook, all I have to say is beware of The Don.
(And if you know me you know I ain't voting for him...unless Hillary gets a nod, then it will be a vote against her, more than a vote for him. I wont do that to Sanders simple because of his honest stances)
 
I see a lot of people discounting Trump's "Make America Great Again" just like I saw a lot of people discounting Obama's "Hope and Change" of 2008.
Why are people so sure Trump will not rally the old white folks to turn out like Obama was able to rally the youth and black vote?

I won't doubt the stupidity of this country (or at least a large segment of it) and its ability to elect a disaster of a president... see Reagan and Bush 2.0....

That being said, Romney actually did a great job of getting white Republicans out to the polls. Obama was enough of a motivation for a rabid base in the GOP to lose their minds in 2012. So the concept that Trump will bring a wave is hard to believe. People were really, truly fired up about Obama.

Karl Rove even wrote about it recently:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/karl-rove-the-myth-of-the-stay-at-home-republicans-1427930037
First, let’s look at voter turnout. It dropped to 129.2 million in 2012 from 131.5 million in 2008, according to David Leip’s Atlas of U.S. Elections.

But the drop-off was not among conservatives. According to exit polls, self-identified conservatives made up 35% of the 2012 turnout, and 82% of them voted for Mr. Romney. This translates into about 45.2 million conservatives who turned out—roughly 531,000 more than in 2008.

In 2008 conservatives were 34% of the turnout, and 78% voted for John McCain. So Mr. Romney got around 2.2 million more conservative voters than Mr. McCain—and the conservative share of the 2012 electorate was the highest since exit polls began asking voters about their political leanings in 1976.

Here’s another way of looking at the electorate. The number of self-identified conservative voters rose to about 45.2 million in 2012 from 30.6 million in 2000. And the number of conservatives voting for the Republican presidential candidate rose to about 37.1 million in 2012 from 25.1 million in 2000.

Still, Mr. Romney would have needed an estimated 7.7 million additional conservative voters (assuming he took 82% of them) to beat President Obama. But that implies that conservative voters would have constituted nearly 39% of the turnout. This has never happened.

The danger with Trump is that he will garner the supporters of younger, ignorant voters who're susceptible to the bravado and TV persona that Trump has built over the years.

I think there's also reason to believe that Hillary would do just as well with Blacks (at a little over 90% with great turnout) and even better with Hispanics than Obama (who received 73% or so). I would also wager a guess that Hispanics will turn out in bigger numbers this year than ever in history..

Lastly, judging by the comments from Lindsey Graham the other night I think it's not out of the question that some sort of radical split happens... some sort of grand bargain. The question is whether or not the establishment GOP would rather see Hillary win the Whitehouse and owe the GOP establishment some serious political capital or if they'd actually side with Trump when push comes to shove. This much is clear, there are also some conservatives out there that gladly voted for Romney that would never be able to stomach supporting someone as bigoted and outrageous, as uncertain as Trump.
 
Last edited:
I won't doubt the stupidity of this country (or at least a large segment of it) and its ability to elect a disaster of a president... see Reagan and Bush 2.0....
I have no time for partisan shittery like this. The same can be said about Obama, Clinton, Carter, Ford, Nixon...as back as you want to go. We live in a country that elects who it elects, about 40% will be happy while the other 60% cry that the President is too liberal/conservative/marxist/socialist/etc
 
I have no time for partisan shittery like this. The same can be said about Obama, Clinton, Carter, Ford, Nixon...as back as you want to go. We live in a country that elects who it elects, about 40% will be happy while the other 60% cry that the President is too liberal/conservative/marxist/socialist/etc


Reagan... hmmm... Iran-Contra, war on AIDS, war on homelessness, war on the poor, war on Social Security, nominated Scalia who did untold damage to "the little guy", suffered from dementia in the final few years (which is downright scary), struck a grand bargain with Christian evangelicals and rolled them firmly into the GOP, which has dramatically shaped how awful and manipulated that party has become. Was originally a B-movie actor - can't people believed and fell for his acting job all the way into DC. Shall I go on?

Oh - didn't even get to GW Bush... should I even bother?

But again... this isn't about mobilizing the traditional base for Trump - Romney did that and he did it well. This is about mobilizing a segment of the vote that NEVER votes - ala the youth and the lazy, apathetic masses out there... they're not typically conservatives, who actually get out and vote in both presidential and non preso. years. They're probably not even of a particular leaning, they're just drawn to Trump's bravado and bullying like flights to a light bulb in the dar.
 
I haven't heard anybody explain away the Nevada result to my satisfaction yet.
If you're referring to Trump 44% of the Hispanic vote it's been looked into and explained by several reporters.
 
If you're referring to Trump 44% of the Hispanic vote it's been looked into and explained by several reporters.
I've seen the explanations about national polls showing his unfavorability, and the relatively small sample in NV entrance/exit polling. But my sense is that the explanations are only proposing a set of circumstances that might explain his future, untested lack of support, while we have in front of us one result that is against the polling data. Saying that "See, Hispanics actually hate him" isn't going to cut it now. It's something to keep an eye on.
 
Well, the fucking racist will
hardly denounce a supremacists'
vote... if he were running for
mayor, he'd probably suck every
18-24 year old's cock for a vote...
 
Back
Top