So I've been reading these threads for a while now, and after months of boxing I started attending my gym's submission wrestling classes. I have zero experience in wrestling of any kind, so it's all brand-spanking new to me. I've read repeatedly in here for a while now about people who "spazz" and try to power their way out of submissions. Threads like "guys who suck to roll with" and "check out this dickhead" are recurring topics. With that in mind, I thought I'd take a pre-emptive strike so I don't wind up being one of "those guys" that people hate to roll with. If you could help to explain what "spazz" behavior is, as well as some good advice for a complete newbie, I'd be grateful. I don't mean advice as in how to lock in submissions and stuff, that's what the training should deliver. I mean more subtle things, like how to be a good partner to roll with. The gym I'm at is excellent and people would more than likely inform me if I'm being retarded on the mat, but I think it would be wise if I can educate myself on the subject and avoid being lame to begin with. Oh yeah, and just for a little humor, there's another guy that just started the training also. Towards the end of the training yesterday we had open session. I think that if I was watching the two of us go at it that it would have looked similar to two fish flopping all over the place, because we were both clueless as hell just rolling around and trying to figure out even a basic sub. :redface: Ah well, gotta start somewhere!
I'm with you man...I've only had two classes so far and when I've rolled I've gotten into positions where I'm like "ok dude, just sub me or something so we can start over, cuz I have no clue what to do right now"
when you first start rolling, think to yourself, "I will roll at 75-80% effort." if you were a wrestler, you could change that to 50%.
I think the fact that you even have the attitude to find out what you need to do to be a good rolling partner is like 90% of the battle already. The main thing I would say is try to make sure that everything you do is an actual technique you have been taught, even if its not something you are very good at. Do this as opposed to just guessing at something and trying to use brute force. Of course this will be limited at first but you will learn more pretty quickly. Also, don't be afraid to stop the roll and ask a question to your rolling partner. Also, post lots of questions her in the grappling forum as you have already done. It has always been very helpful for me. tbone
Nothing wrong with using power in defense and offense in my book. A spaz to me is someone who is a danger to his surroundings. Like the guy who attempted a guillotine on me from a sprawl, and then jumped in the air holding my head. Or the guy who started punching me in the stomach because he panicked and forgot the tap visible. Don't do shit like that. Try not to kick, elbow, head butt etc. your opponents by accident, and don't explode submissions. It's fine to use power - just control it. I actually disagree a bit with the part about only using techniques you've been taught. If something feels natural and makes sense, just go for it. I find that a lot of my sweeps, take downs (from the knees) and submission defense comes through a mix of instinct and curiosity rather than textbook technique. My trainers have more than once commented positively on this aspect of my game. I think a beginner easily could lose any grasp of flow if he was too focused on only using "technique".
Practice your offense on those you are able to beat and practice your defense on everyone else. Oh and keep a log, its helped me a lot!
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+1 to Tbone's response - if you are asking this question, you are going to be fine. About not spazzing: I'd actually combine Mumrik's two points: It's OK to use some power / explosiveness AND It's OK to guess sometimes BUT it's probably not a good idea to try a guess explosively until you have more experience. For instance, the guy that jumped in the air holding Mumrik's neck was both guessing and being explosive. Not such a terrific idea. Some other anti-spazz basics: - In practice, it's much better to lose an armbar because you put it on too slow than to lose a training partner because you put it on too fast. - DONT GUESS ABOUT HEELHOOKS AND KNEEBARS. If you aren't sure about what you're doing there, just leave 'em alone. Ask an instructor if you want to learn them and drill them a lot before you whip one on somebody in practice. Also be sure that your training partner knows how to properly defend one before you try one - more people hurt themselves trying to roll out than are hurt by getting caught. - In BJJ, the mantra is "position before submission." You are a lot less likely to hurt someone trying a sweep or escape than trying a flying armbar. The approach might be different in sub wrestling, however, so check with your instructor on that.
That's a good point. Don't explode into something if you don't have an idea of what it does. As you roll you learn a lot about balance and the body, which probably gives you a good framework for this. The most important thing is not to explode into submissions. As The Beach Boys sang: "We get there fast and then we take it slow". If everybody did that my left elbow wouldn't have been popped twice. For submissions such as heel hooks it is not just the one applying it who needs to be careful and knowledgeable, it is also the guy it is being applied to. You won't necessarily feel much pain before your knee goes, so you need to be able to recognize the danger when you get caught.
i just started training too and have already taken 2 classes. everyone ive rolled with has seemed pretty cool about showing me things i have done wrong, and have shown me the correct way to do things after rolling. other people will just let me work on getting myself out of their guard and then working on setting up subs from there.
I completely relate. I come from a general wrestling background and have a lot of instinct built into me from that, luckily its been a long time since ive wrestled back in high school. Sometimes those instincts get me into trouble or caught in a submission. I am quickly learning what not to do, probably more then I am of what to do. I just go in there with the will to learn as much as possible from rolling, even though I feel like I have no clue wihat I am doing, everytime I do something wrong I can instantly see what I did and if I don't, it usually gets pointed out to me. At first I had a fear of being a bad partner or going to hard or too easy. I am starting to learn from experience of what I should and shouldn't be doing, especially as a beginner. Mainly I just try to maintain my drive to learn and improve.
Bartatua I am that new, hehe. The instructor has gone over heel hooks with the class as a whole, and really stresses caution with them, so I know the danger is there. The problem is I am not sure exactly how much pressure is too much pressure, so when I was both practicing them and rolling I put hardly anything into them. I suppose I exaggerate about the rolling part, because the whole time I was rolling I was basically scratching my head thinking "ok now, what exactly am I supposed to do to get one of those leg locks?" (We were practicing nothing but leg locks that night and my 1st night.) Also, thanks for clarifying what a spaz is. I wasn't sure if that meant someone trying to use strength to prevent being submitted or not. I was using strength to a reasonable degree (or at least what I guessed was reasonable.) Meaning, I wasn't just letting my partner grab my legs and do whatever he wanted with them. I would roll or try to resist him as he was trying to put locks on, but nothing insane like punching or flailing, etc. The replies gave me a sense of relief at least. I know that I'm not being a spaz, just someone with diddly squat for experience. I've enjoyed the classes so far, but I have to admit that watching is WAY easier than applying, and it can be frustrating trying to recall all the steps to get something like an achilles lock. And when the open rolling starts? Forget about it! :icon_chee
Don't be frustrated..i can write an entire book about how it'll hinder your progress...frustration is THAT bad Position before submission: and even if you DO go for the submission straight from guard or out of turtle, you still need to make sure the first few steps of the technique are securely locked in first. If you're not constantly setting them up, and just pulling them out of your ass, you'll only nail the guy if he doesn't know what's going on, if ur lucky, or if he's tired No matter what you favorite position is, you MUST learn how to play guard for anythign to work, either be really good at passing from top, or sweeping/submitting/retaining guard+preventing guard pass from bottom. if you don't have any of those skills, whatever you know from sidemount/mount/backmount just aren't going to happen.
didnt want to start a new thread...and this may sound dumb..but I am serious..haha I am going to start training in BJJ at the beginning of next month..I ordered my GI, but should I wear a cup or mouthpiece when training/rolling??
I might be really new, but even in the 2 times I've been in class I was glad I had a cup on. I have a mouthpiece too, but there's been no situation where I felt I needed it (yet). However, I'd rather just have it in and avoid getting a tooth knocked out on accident.
some good advice here and I agree with a post on the first page -- the fact that you are seeking this out means you will probably be fine be clean, cut your nails, and don't F with leglocks - have a great time
I say use a mouthpiece (I've twice chipped teeth because someone head butted my chin), but don't use a cup. You will get bad habit from the cup, especially when doing armbars. They are very easy to finish with the cup, but require much better technique without. The cup is also very uncomfortable for your opponent when you backmount them.
