Hook in Muay Thai

[bowlie]

I hate hooks, ever since I dislocated my shoulder throwing one. I had corrective surgery but I still feel uncomfortable throwing them. I was wondering do hooks have an important role in Muay thai? Elbows seem to have close range head shots overed, and knees for close range body shots.

 

[Henry Huggins]

depends on the school.

i have a thai instructor and we use a fair amount of hooks and overhands. even if not for KOs, we use them to set up a lot of things (knees, clinching, etc..)

however, we don't use a lot of uppercuts and prefer to knee at that range instead.

 

[stinkoman]

What made a huge difference for me with throwing hooks was changing my posture. I used to do the classic squared and hunched Muay Thai stance and would always hurt throwing hard hooks. I started to use a much straighter, chest up posture and this helped keep my shoulders screwed in my sockets and have had no problems since with hooks.

 

[Frode Falch]

if you cant hook, then dont hook. there are still enough weapons in muay thai to make you a complete fighter.

are you a good kicker?

 

[SAAMAG]

A hook in muay thai is not a hook in boxing. They are performed differently and play slightly different roles. I'd say that yes they're important and are probably one of the most landed shots, but technically you don't "need" it. But are you doing it right?

Lead hooks in muay thai are done with weight on the front leg, and no foot pivoting. Waist and hips are engaged, but you're not going to sit down on the punch or pivot on the ball of the lead foot. The lead body hook is done the same way, no elevation change of the body. Just punching with the arm down a little lower. Rear hooks are done with the same motion a nak muay would use for a cross or rear straight--except you're throwing your arm in an arc. See a theme? In fact almost every single punch in muay thai has a tall, front weighted stance under it. The only nak muay that don't punch like this are typically ones that come from gyms with more modern boxing infused within them or ones that have trained and competed in western boxing. Now strategically hooks in muay thai are generally used in combination off a rear straight, and precede such things as the rear diagonal kick. They'll also be used as counters to the lead round kick (for example side stepping a lead round kick and having the lead hook hit as your weight on the front foot touches down, followed by a rear straight or rear elbow...knee...etc).

Hooks in boxing on the other hand, are done in a slightly lower stance. Lead hook is done by loading the front hip/leg/foot and that load is transferred to the rear hip/leg/foot as the lead foot pivots on the ball, hips engage followed by shoulders and the punch. Body shots are done in an even lower stance (elevation changes to suit the target elevation). Now with body shots opinions will vary on whether to pivot the lead foot based on intent of the punch, power output, spatial relationship and etc. Long story short some folks pivot the lead and some don't. For example while in the pocket you can throw a body left without pivoting on the lead and then a high left hook as normal. Strategically...hooks are my favorite weapon. They can be used long or short, as leads offensively interspersed with jabs, as counters defensively off a bob and weave...it's just an all around great punch and one of the best to KO someone.

As far as rear hooks in boxing, you'll hear some people say that they're non-existent in boxing. I beg to differ. They exist, but usage is a rarity in general. From my experiences, the rear hook is more commonly used either deep on the inside (in the pocket) to setup uppercuts and vice versa, or as a counter shot off a pivot when someone comes in hot. It's generally not used as a primary offensive tool (for example "a long right hook") from what I've seen. But I'm also not the most senior boxing authority in this sub-forum, and my experiences in straight boxing are not as complete as others here who's knowledge you can tap on that.

 

[bowlie]

A hook in muay thai is not a hook in boxing. They are performed differently and play slightly different roles. I'd say that yes they're important and are probably one of the most landed shots, but technically you don't "need" it. But are you doing it right?

Lead hooks in muay thai are done with weight on the front leg, and no foot pivoting. Waist and hips are engaged, but you're not going to sit down on the punch or pivot on the ball of the lead foot. The lead body hook is done the same way, no elevation change of the body. Just punching with the arm down a little lower. Rear hooks are done with the same motion a nak muay would use for a cross or rear straight--except you're throwing your arm in an arc. See a theme? In fact almost every single punch in muay thai has a tall, front weighted stance under it. The only nak muay that don't punch like this are typically ones that come from gyms with more modern boxing infused within them or ones that have trained and competed in western boxing. Now strategically hooks in muay thai are generally used in combination off a rear straight, and precede such things as the rear diagonal kick. They'll also be used as counters to the lead round kick (for example side stepping a lead round kick and having the lead hook hit as your weight on the front foot touches down, followed by a rear straight or rear elbow...knee...etc).

Hooks in boxing on the other hand, are done in a slightly lower stance. Lead hook is done by loading the front hip/leg/foot and that load is transferred to the rear hip/leg/foot as the lead foot pivots on the ball, hips engage followed by shoulders and the punch. Body shots are done in an even lower stance (elevation changes to suit the target elevation). Now with body shots opinions will vary on whether to pivot the lead foot based on intent of the punch, power output, spatial relationship and etc. Long story short some folks pivot the lead and some don't. For example while in the pocket you can throw a body left without pivoting on the lead and then a high left hook as normal. Strategically...hooks are my favorite weapon. They can be used long or short, as leads offensively interspersed with jabs, as counters defensively off a bob and weave...it's just an all around great punch and one of the best to KO someone.

As far as rear hooks in boxing, you'll hear some people say that they're non-existent in boxing. I beg to differ. They exist, but usage is a rarity in general. From my experiences, the rear hook is more commonly used either deep on the inside (in the pocket) to setup uppercuts and vice versa, or as a counter shot off a pivot when someone comes in hot. It's generally not used as a primary offensive tool (for example "a long right hook") from what I've seen. But I'm also not the most senior boxing authority in this sub-forum, and my experiences in straight boxing are not as complete as others here who's knowledge you can tap on that.

Strange, the lead hook we were taught today did have us pivot on the lead foot, but very interesting all the same.

Im not a good thai kicker at the moment, but im pretty comfortable with taekwondo kicks and I picked up the thai roundhouse ok today. Im quite lanky so im thinking my kicks and straight punches will be my strongest weapons and my knees and elbows in the clinch my backup if someone closes the distance. Does anyone know how UK muay thai comps look at throws?

 

[Muay o Muay]

Does anyone know how UK muay thai comps look at throws?

Please expand on what you mean?
where you training out of interest also if you dont mind me asking?
Edit: just seen your training at kstar keep it up there and you wont go far wrong.

 

[Paradigm]

hmmmm...ive been throwing my hooks boxing style in MT. gonna try the other way and see how much easier kicks are to get off.

 

[a guy]

My take on it is that there are so many weapons and variations of each weapon that you don't need to develop every one and all of it's incarnations, but you should have an understanding of each technique.

So with hooks, you don't have to throw them with power or even with serious intent. You could develop them purely as setups for other strikes. For example, you could simply practice using a lead hook like the thai one described by SAAMAG (where the weight stays on the front foot) to steer opponents into a rear leg kick. The hook won't need to be particularly hard, it just needs to encourage the opponent to move into your kick or at least stop them from moving away. With the weight staying closer to the front foot, the hook won't be very hard but it leaves you in a great position to throw a hard and fast right kick. This is a very simple and basic answer, but the idea behind it is the important part.

Also, you can use hooks to the guard of the opponent to create openings for strikes or opportunities to clinch. Say your opponent is using some block of the "answering the phone" variety. You can use a lead hook to get them to widen the guard enough to fit a straight right in the gap. Mix it up with a jab to hide it well. Again, it's simple but it illustrates the concept of using hooks with less power to accomplish goals other than knocking people out. There's very little chance of a shoulder injury occurring this way.

Get creative with it and don't say you're just not gonna throw hooks before trying to incorporate them.

 

[SAAMAG]

hmmmm...ive been throwing my hooks boxing style in MT. gonna try the other way and see how much easier kicks are to get off.

Keep in mind there's a reason for every action. The reason for the mechanical design was to be more readily able to adapt all the weapons together...dee mat & sok, tae kao, na keang, & tao (hitting with the fist & elbow, kicking with the knee, shin, & foot).

I hook most often with a hybrid of the two. I'll pivot most times, but stand tall when I'm using kicks or planning on using a kick. It's not really a big deal, but I just wanted to make a note that the methods ARE different and if you're doing straight muay thai it's something to take into consideration.

 

[bowlie]

Sounds good guys, thanks. A Guy I like your thinking.

 

[Paradigm]

Keep in mind there's a reason for every action. The reason for the mechanical design was to be more readily able to adapt all the weapons together...dee mat & sok, tae kao, na keang, & tao (hitting with the fist & elbow, kicking with the knee, shin, & foot).

I hook most often with a hybrid of the two. I'll pivot most times, but stand tall when I'm using kicks or planning on using a kick. It's not really a big deal, but I just wanted to make a note that the methods ARE different and if you're doing straight muay thai it's something to take into consideration.

how do you incorporate elbows and knees into sparring? i never get to spar with elbows and with knees, we only practice knees using the inside of the thigh/leg to the side of the rib cage.

this is how we throw the knees in sparring...only without the 2 vs 1 and getting whipped by a stick:



against those TSD guys with the 4oz gloves, i know i would have been more effective had i been able to throw elbows/straight knees. in fact, throwing the knee against the side like i do in clinch sparring got me dumped on my back because i forgot to mention no takedowns. had i just thrown a real straight knee to the gut, the result would have been different.

 

[Pearse Shields]

Use the right technique at the right time. For instance, if you bring a guy's guard up in front of his face, then you'd want to try get something around the guard as opposed to straight through it, and there's not always the opportunity to throw a kick or an elbow in that instance. It's not necessarily a case of an attack being defined as being either used in close range or at long range, sometimes it's not so clear-cut.

Another use for hooks is to create an angle. I like to use a left hook as cover to be able to move to the left, which can give you other avenues of attack. In order for your opponent to attack you back, they need to reset themselves and come back to facing you, which is going to give you a bit of time to do as you will (not much, but a bit).

Sorry if my ramblings aren't very good, I'm not good at describing things, I'm more of a practical person and prefer demonstrations and examples.