Hips and what they mean to me

[apizur**]

I had a small exchange with Sin, talking about using the hips in boxing.
Disc jumped in and gave me some stretches to help mobilize them.

So I pretended I understood what they were talking about to avoid hijacking the thread. That being said, can anyone explain (hopefully with video examples) the difference between having good hips, bad hips, stiff hips, whatever. How can I get the most out of my hips in boxing?

 

[Sinister]

Mosley always had stiff hips. Almost every time he's ever been hurt in boxing (and he was still very difficult to hurt despite this), you can see his stiffness immediately after being hurt:



His hips just aren't and never were flexible. At lighter weights, where no one was strong enough to hurt him, it didn't matter. But it sure came into effect later. And it interrupted his ability to defend himself.



In fact you can SEE hip-mobility playing a factor in that fight when Canelo would land. He'd take an angle using his own more flexible hips, Shane wouldn't move, and he'd fire. If Shane's speed and power didn't keep you at bay, or you could neutralize it, you could use his lack of ability to change positions against him. In his younger days he relied solely on his legs, stepping in and out.

Contrast that to Marquez whose ability to use his flexible hips when he's hurt almost always got him out of trouble and led to KO's:



He was never the "cover up and hope the other guy leaves you alone" kind of fighter. He was more of a "take an angle and hit the guy back harder than he hit you" guy.

 

[apizur**]

Okay, so I see Shane in a couple situations flare his elbows out almost like he's looking for balance. Then it looks like his legs become lead. I'm having trouble separating the difference between the leg immobility and the hip immobility.

 

[apizur**]

I guess if I could understand what hip mobility grants you then I could at least try to use some examples to bridge the gap in my mind. I'm trying to picture the function of the hips, and I just keep going back to twisting them for punching power and ROM.

To run off on a stab in the dark... when I am staying within my feet and I slip my head to the left, my hips counter balance by moving to the right. Is THIS having good hip movement?

 

[a guy]

I guess if I could understand what hip mobility grants you then I could at least try to use some examples to bridge the gap in my mind. I'm trying to picture the function of the hips, and I just keep going back to twisting them for punching power and ROM.

To run off on a stab in the dark... when I am staying within my feet and I slip my head to the left, my hips counter balance by moving to the right. Is THIS having good hip movement?

I believe your confusion has something to do with you using hips to mean the general area around your pelvis whereas Sin is referring specifically to the ball and socket joints known as the hips. Stiff hips meaning you have trouble bending at the hips. So for your slipping left example, you would need to bend at your left hip to get your head on that side while remaining in optimal position.

 

[Sinister]

a guy is correct. It's about the joint that is the hips, and the ability to fold and unfold that joint. Shane never developed that ability very well, which is what makes him so stiff. When he DOES fold his hips in the HL above, he does better at avioding punches even when he's in Canelo's firing range. But inevitably he stiffens back up, gets hit, and knocked off-balance. This suggests that his hips aren't strong, they fatigue quickly and compromise his ability to change positions with small motions that originate IN the hip-joint. When he was younger, he would very effectively step in and out of range, and around the opponent, as he aged he lost some of that athleticism and was left with greater vulnerability.

Whereas Marquez, having more mobile and stronger hips can easily drop elevation, slip (without his head going too far...except forward, his main weakness which has resulted in him being floored, specifically by good hooks), and make very subtle positioning changes very quickly. If you actually read the tile exercise thread, I believe I noted that "head-movement" is really hip-movement. So what hip mobility "gets you" is better head-movement that is subtle, and keeps you in range and positions to land hard counters. That's how Marquez has almost always been able to battle back successfully even after hurt or floored, and score knockouts against opponents who became over-confident.

 

[Harukaze]

a guy is correct. It's about the joint that is the hips, and the ability to fold and unfold that joint. Shane never developed that ability very well, which is what makes him so stiff. When he DOES fold his hips in the HL above, he does better at avioding punches even when he's in Canelo's firing range. But inevitably he stiffens back up, gets hit, and knocked off-balance. This suggests that his hips aren't strong, they fatigue quickly and compromise his ability to change positions with small motions that originate IN the hip-joint. When he was younger, he would very effectively step in and out of range, and around the opponent, as he aged he lost some of that athleticism and was left with greater vulnerability.

Whereas Marquez, having more mobile and stronger hips can easily drop elevation, slip (without his head going too far...except forward, his main weakness which has resulted in him being floored, specifically by good hooks), and make very subtle positioning changes very quickly. If you actually read the tile exercise thread, I believe I noted that "head-movement" is really hip-movement. So what hip mobility "gets you" is better head-movement that is subtle, and keeps you in range and positions to land hard counters. That's how Marquez has almost always been able to battle back successfully even after hurt or floored, and score knockouts against opponents who became over-confident.

Yet another masterful post. Bravo!

 

[Kickzilla]

This is so random but I found this. A very similar explanation in horse riding with pics showing hip fold. (no I don't ride lol..was looking for hip socket images in google and somehow came across this)

http://www.murdochmethod.com/find-your-hip-joints

A little fruity.. but:

 

[facePuncher7]

Imagine a green circle around your feet that represents how far you can step in one movement. The greater your hip flexibility, the bigger that circle is.

The bigger that circle, the greater your ability to step and balance yourself with your legs/feet.

Make sense?

 

[facePuncher7]

Also, generally people (especially athletes) experience tightness in the quads and psoas muscles, resulting in an anterior pelvic tilt, weak glutes, tight spinal erectors etc.

That type of immobility most effects your ability to step backwards (generally where you move whilst recovering/hurt).

 

[facePuncher7]

And, after actually reading the thread, I realize I'm coming at this from a completely different angle.

Hope my posts may be helpful anyway, although more of an exercise science approach then specifically boxing related.

 

[Cyclone Mike]

No joke, I think cross-training in salsa dancing would make a better fighter.

 

[apizur**]

Yours actually lines up with the exercise I was shown for loosening the hips up.

 

[Redtarget]

A little behind on the description of what would be "stiff" hips for boxing or in this context we're talking about? Can anyone fill me in the quickest way they can on what stiff and/or flexible hips means?

 

[a guy]

A little behind on the description of what would be "stiff" hips for boxing or in this context we're talking about? Can anyone fill me in the quickest way they can on what stiff and/or flexible hips means?

Like I said, hips are joints. They are where the head of the femur connects to I believe it's the acetabulum of the pelvic bone. Now those joints are classified as ball and socket joints (like your shoulders) which means they have mobility in several directions--they can rotate, bend, extend, etc. When hips are stiff, it means they lack mobility to bend. In other words, the person won't be able to hold them in a flexed position while supporting weight for long before the muscles give out, and/or won't have the flexibility to fold deeply at the hips and get enough movement there to produce results.

By the way if you can't visualize what bending at the hips means, lift a knee up off the ground. See how your leg comes closer to your body as a function of the joint? That's hip flexion, which I am referring to as bending or folding the hips. Now for boxing purposes we're talking about doing that, but instead of bringing the leg to the body with no weight on it we need to bring the body towards the leg with weight on it. Doing so is vital to either move your head or punch while keeping control of your weight, maintaining posture and not sacrificing position. It's also just good to understand as part of your body mechanics in general.

Go back to the tile exercise, sin very clearly demonstrates what a fold of the hips looks like in a boxing stance and explains exacty why its so important. Then if you're feeling particularly studious I recommend looking into how the hip is able to rotate and what implications that has.

 

[Tug]

is folding the hip something a boxer/kickboxer should be looking to do at all times to some degree when attacking or defending, or is it more situational?

 

[a guy]

is folding the hip something a boxer/kickboxer should be looking to do at all times to some degree when attacking or defending, or is it more situational?

Depends on what you're doing. Sometimes you bend at one, sometimes at the other, sometimes at both, sometimes you do the opposite and need to extend at them (mostly during kicks). You just have to understand how the hips work in general then apply that to each specific movement. As I said in my above post, rotation is an extremely important factor as well that needs to be understood when discussing the hips.

 

[Redtarget]

Like I said, hips are joints. They are where the head of the femur connects to I believe it's the acetabulum of the pelvic bone. Now those joints are classified as ball and socket joints (like your shoulders) which means they have mobility in several directions--they can rotate, bend, extend, etc. When hips are stiff, it means they lack mobility to bend. In other words, the person won't be able to hold them in a flexed position while supporting weight for long before the muscles give out, and/or won't have the flexibility to fold deeply at the hips and get enough movement there to produce results.

By the way if you can't visualize what bending at the hips means, lift a knee up off the ground. See how your leg comes closer to your body as a function of the joint? That's hip flexion, which I am referring to as bending or folding the hips. Now for boxing purposes we're talking about doing that, but instead of bringing the leg to the body with no weight on it we need to bring the body towards the leg with weight on it. Doing so is vital to either move your head or punch while keeping control of your weight, maintaining posture and not sacrificing position. It's also just good to understand as part of your body mechanics in general.

Go back to the tile exercise, sin very clearly demonstrates what a fold of the hips looks like in a boxing stance and explains exacty why its so important. Then if you're feeling particularly studious I recommend looking into how the hip is able to rotate and what implications that has.

Thank you! How would stiff hips be meant for boxing though? In other words them videos sinister posted I'm not understanding what he means. For instance the Mosley video just looks like was hurt/tired. But I may be missing something

 

[Tug]

Depends on what you're doing. Sometimes you bend at one, sometimes at the other, sometimes at both, sometimes you do the opposite and need to extend at them (mostly during kicks). You just have to understand how the hips work in general then apply that to each specific movement. As I said in my above post, rotation is an extremely important factor as well that needs to be understood when discussing the hips.

Thanks, I see what you mean. Working the hips properly is something I

 

[Apple Pie]

a guy is correct. It's about the joint that is the hips, and the ability to fold and unfold that joint. Shane never developed that ability very well, which is what makes him so stiff. When he DOES fold his hips in the HL above, he does better at avioding punches even when he's in Canelo's firing range. But inevitably he stiffens back up, gets hit, and knocked off-balance. This suggests that his hips aren't strong, they fatigue quickly and compromise his ability to change positions with small motions that originate IN the hip-joint. When he was younger, he would very effectively step in and out of range, and around the opponent, as he aged he lost some of that athleticism and was left with greater vulnerability.

Whereas Marquez, having more mobile and stronger hips can easily drop elevation, slip (without his head going too far...except forward, his main weakness which has resulted in him being floored, specifically by good hooks), and make very subtle positioning changes very quickly. If you actually read the tile exercise thread, I believe I noted that "head-movement" is really hip-movement. So what hip mobility "gets you" is better head-movement that is subtle, and keeps you in range and positions to land hard counters. That's how Marquez has almost always been able to battle back successfully even after hurt or floored, and score knockouts against opponents who became over-confident.

What exercises or drills could the striker or coach implement to develop flexible hips?