• We are requiring that all users add Two-Step Verification (2FA) to their accounts, as found here: https://forums.sherdog.com/account/security Within one week, we will automatically set this up, so please make the necessary arrangements. Reach out to an admin if you encounter issues, and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Hey boxers, this is why you can't beat an MMA fighter in a street fight.

98bird said:
Seems like you train on the internet or something. There's no exact formula to being a Boxer. There are shitty Boxers all the way up to great Boxers. There's all, still Boxers. What now, is an Amateur Boxer who had only 1 fight, losing it horribly and then quits....is he not a Boxer and/or never a Boxer?

Ngannou trains, MOSTLY Boxing. He started out trying to make it as a Boxer. The only reason he got into MMA was because he was homeless in France and it just so happened, that an MMA gym took him in (probably let him live in it) and continued his fight training. He even says so in his interviews.

Sounds like you watch way too many Jackie Chan movies. This is bullshit. What do you mean "it is extremely rare" to square off? It's mostly squaring off, cussing, screaming and yelling....with neither really wanting to fight and hoping that someone breaks it up. In the case that a fight does happen, it's after a lot of the above has happened; so plenty of squaring off.

Punching someone in the face to knock someone out, works just the same in the streets as it does in the cage. Who's going to be better at this? And MMA fighter or some untrained fatboy in the streets or some fake ass, Self Defense guy who can't fight?

Who in the world does this in real life, that are legit MMA fighters? Maybe in Jackie Chan movies they do.

You obviously don't even know what MMA is. It's been 25 years since UFC 1, when it was mostly about taking someone down. You need to update your YouTube subscription training.

This guy in your video doesn't look he he can sprint 50 feet w/o gassing.
Click to expand...

Well let's approach this logically. Also we should minimize and attempt to eliminate the use of ad hominem attacks as they are a fallacious argumentative strategy.

To begin, we should look at the context of this discussion. I may have misinterpreted the initial claim of the first poster. My initial interpretation was that the poster who created this thread was making the claim that boxing was ineffective and inferior to mma in a street combat situation. The justification behind the claim was that the failure of Ngannou and Volkan to Stipe and Cormier proved that mma was superior to boxing in a street fight context.

To that claim I rejected the assertion that Volkan and Ngannou are boxers. The initial poster was making a vast generalization on the effectiveness of boxing in a street context and then proceeded to use 2 examples of what could be difficult to classify as boxers as their evidence. For one that is using anecdotal evidence to support the claim which makes it a weaker position to take. Secondly to make a claim about the effectiveness of boxing it would be superior to use a larger sample size and also to create a gradation of boxing skills in an attempt to create sub classifications. For example how can we validate boxing's supposed ineffectiveness without considering the inclusion of higher quality boxers and more incidents of boxing vs mma or some other martial art.

So while you bring up a valid point of what qualifies someone as a boxer, I would think more stringent requirements would be needed to justify the claim that the initial poster made.

As for the whole Jackie Chan comment. I was attempting to look at the claim about "street fighting" in a statistical way. This idea of 2 people squaring off in an organized street fight is likely statistically rare. It might happen at schools, or at bars or in low socioeconomic environments, but on the whole it is a relatively small occurrence. I took the interpretation of street fight and expanded it to include street altercation. This would include any form of combative situation in which a civilian is involved in a situation under which they may need to defend themselves. This would include the rare situations under which two individuals willingly agree to some sort of organization altercation such as a street fight. In that context there is likely a higher incident rate under which an individual is attacked unexpectedly, or by multiple individuals, or by an individual holding a weapon.

Under these circumstances which are arguably more likely to occur than an organized street fight it changes which tactics are useful. In these types of situations, an individual is best suited avoiding them and the 2nd best option is to attack and then get away. Boxing, while having its limitations teaches individuals to defend themselves and to understand range. It is a very effective way for people to defend themselves in a street situation as they can strike and get away. Whereas with a grappling centric approach there is a substantial risk that the individual will be kicked and stomped on by multiple attackers or stabbed.

I understand MMA just fine and have been watching, and studying it for years. I have also spent some time training it. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Like I said earlier the grappling centric approach is not one I would recommend because it exposes an individual to the risk of getting stomped or stabbed.

As for the video, that was to demonstrate how someone with a concealed weapon can give someone the opportunity to get close and grapple with them so they can stab them.

This goes to another point which I find relevant. Statistically speaking the vast majority of violent altercations occuring on the street are arguably done by criminals. Many of these individuals are more than comfortable with seriously injuring, maiming or even killing those they get into an altercation with.

I wrote my initial comment more out of concern for the people on this forum and those that read it. I don't know their age or background but I do know that there are a lot of people who don't understand risks very well. It is all nice to train mma or any other martial art and then for people to think their tough. But they should understand that there are serious legal implications to their actions. Also they should realize that there are very dangerous people out there and that while they may be thinking they are getting into a fight with some kind of rules they may simply be exposing themselves to get seriously injured or killed.

I don't think it helps people much if they train mma and then decide while they are out at a bar that they should engage in a physical confrontation with someone. What good does their mentality about mma's effectiveness do them if them get paralyzed or killed?

My dismissal of street fighting was tied in with knowing that the type of people who go out looking for street fights or are overly willing to engage in them, are also likely to be the people who don't know their limitations and don't know which situations to avoid. There is no sense ending up being killed or locked in prison for trying to be tough. People can spar in a boxing, muay thai or mma gym if they want to prove to themselves or others how tough they are.
 
RAFI BOMB said:
To that claim I rejected the assertion that Volkan and Ngannou are boxers. The initial poster was making a vast generalization on the effectiveness of boxing in a street context and then proceeded to use 2 examples of what could be difficult to classify as boxers as their evidence.
Click to expand...

I already proved to you that Ngannou trains mostly Boxing.

For one that is using anecdotal evidence to support the claim which makes it a weaker position to take. Secondly to make a claim about the effectiveness of boxing it would be superior to use a larger sample size and also to create a gradation of boxing skills in an attempt to create sub classifications. For example how can we validate boxing's supposed ineffectiveness without considering the inclusion of higher quality boxers and more incidents of boxing vs mma or some other martial art.

So while you bring up a valid point of what qualifies someone as a boxer, I would think more stringent requirements would be needed to justify the claim that the initial poster made.
Click to expand...

You can disagree with the OP all you want, but you're just going to the other extreme with your theories about how great Boxing is. In general, MMA will beat Boxers in the street. The only proofs that you have of this are the early UFC's where Boxers, in general, got destroyed. You can theorize all you want about how great Boxers would do in a street fight vs. the best MMA fighters, but that shit is just fantasy land. Because what are the chances of Mayweather getting into a street fight with McGregor? For free?

As for the whole Jackie Chan comment. I was attempting to look at the claim about "street fighting" in a statistical way. This idea of 2 people squaring off in an organized street fight is likely statistically rare. It might happen at schools, or at bars or in low socioeconomic environments, but on the whole it is a relatively small occurrence. I took the interpretation of street fight and expanded it to include street altercation. This would include any form of combative situation in which a civilian is involved in a situation under which they may need to defend themselves. This would include the rare situations under which two individuals willingly agree to some sort of organization altercation such as a street fight. In that context there is likely a higher incident rate under which an individual is attacked unexpectedly, or by multiple individuals, or by an individual holding a weapon.
Click to expand...

Based on what though? I've been in over 20 street fights and I say you're wrong.... but this doesn't mean shit over the internet because I could be lying. But as a trained fighter and Self Defense teacher, I've studied this quite extensively. I don't claim to have close to perfect data (because just about anything can happen in a street fight) but I bet that my data collection is much better than yours.

Here's a screenshot of my OCD collection of over 2500 real street fight videos, totaling over 32 gigs that are all organized pretty well. The 2nd screenshot is of the KO directory (partial) just to show you that there are videos inside and not just fake, empty directories. This doesn't even include my CRIME category which is 2100+ videos and 14gigs, where there are more weapons, especially gun defense situations.You can search most of these filenames on YouTube or LiveLeak and see that they're legit. If you want a screenshot of a specific folder, let me know.

Street Fights 2018-01-30 a.jpeg Street Fights 2018-01-30 b (ko).jpeg
 
RAFI BOMB said:
Under these circumstances which are arguably more likely to occur than an organized street fight it changes which tactics are useful. In these types of situations, an individual is best suited avoiding them and the 2nd best option is to attack and then get away. Boxing, while having its limitations teaches individuals to defend themselves and to understand range. It is a very effective way for people to defend themselves in a street situation as they can strike and get away. Whereas with a grappling centric approach there is a substantial risk that the individual will be kicked and stomped on by multiple attackers or stabbed.

I understand MMA just fine and have been watching, and studying it for years. I have also spent some time training it. It has its advantages and disadvantages. Like I said earlier the grappling centric approach is not one I would recommend because it exposes an individual to the risk of getting stomped or stabbed.
Click to expand...

It doesn't sound like you have a good understanding of MMA at all. Who told you that an MMA fighter always have to grapple in a street fight? Why can't they just knock them the fuck out and go home? You do know that there's Boxing in MMA right? And of course, the MMA grappler never has friends around to watch his back neither, in these head stomping scenarios right? Always the lonely fucker with no friends.

As for the video, that was to demonstrate how someone with a concealed weapon can give someone the opportunity to get close and grapple with them so they can stab them.
Click to expand...

Well I saw that video years ago and remember that that guy is horrible and is stuck in the early UFC stage (some 25 years ago) as you are, when grappling/BJJ was the main thing...and you both think it's still like that today.

This goes to another point which I find relevant. Statistically speaking the vast majority of violent altercations occuring on the street are arguably done by criminals. Many of these individuals are more than comfortable with seriously injuring, maiming or even killing those they get into an altercation with.
Click to expand...

Training to knock someone the F out for sport and proving it during hard sparring and fighting in the ring is not violent enough for you? Who's going to be better at this, some criminals who are mostly untrained or a trained fighter who's well trained, experienced and with a proven record of knocking equally trained fighters out?

I wrote my initial comment more out of concern for the people on this forum and those that read it. I don't know their age or background but I do know that there are a lot of people who don't understand risks very well. It is all nice to train mma or any other martial art and then for people to think their tough. But they should understand that there are serious legal implications to their actions. Also they should realize that there are very dangerous people out there and that while they may be thinking they are getting into a fight with some kind of rules they may simply be exposing themselves to get seriously injured or killed.
Click to expand...

Sorry but of this is just Capt. Obvious stuff, like don't do drugs and always wear condoms. I don't know where you live, but very rarely are there any well trained MMA fighters going out looking for street fights. Then when you get into the high level, pro fighters....there's like 1 or 2 every 5-10 years or so.

I don't think it helps people much if they train mma and then decide while they are out at a bar that they should engage in a physical confrontation with someone. What good does their mentality about mma's effectiveness do them if them get paralyzed or killed?

My dismissal of street fighting was tied in with knowing that the type of people who go out looking for street fights or are overly willing to engage in them, are also likely to be the people who don't know their limitations and don't know which situations to avoid. There is no sense ending up being killed or locked in prison for trying to be tough. People can spar in a boxing, muay thai or mma gym if they want to prove to themselves or others how tough they are.
Click to expand...

Hey, believe it or not, we ain't stupid.
 
Candy Routure said:
Umm.. What? Literally every single fight I've ever been in hit the ground. Except one, actually. Have you been in a fight? No shame in saying you haven't.
Click to expand...

So... umm... you got KO'd in every fight you've been in?

OrdinaryDrearyCrownofthornsstarfish-size_restricted.gif
 
You know most boxing fans don't give a shit about MMA right? Why do MMA fans obsess over a sport they don't even like
 
@Candy Routure

I worked late nights downtown and saw hundreds of street fights (between adults), very rare to see any grappling


Usually just someone getting ktfo first punch that lands
 
PEDS Help me Post said:
Most street fights are won by the person that hits first.
Click to expand...

Street fights are for bums, not pro athletes. Its embarrassing that MMA fans seem to judge everything by who would be the best street fighter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,253,035
Messages
56,557,280
Members
175,281
Latest member
ListenChris

Share this page

Back
Top