Helio Gracie did not create a single submission grappling or jiu-jitsu technique?

[Leoofsilence]

If you look as hard as you can you will never read a story about how Helio Gracie created a single technique, if anything you may have heard Royce Gracie say "My father, he create the leverage!" and that's about it! You will never see a newspaper that says "In 1940 Helio Gracie created a technique!" or a book where Helio Gracie recalls creating a technique, or any Gracie family member talking about how they remember Helio Gracie telling a story of how he created a technique, or even a single book claiming that he created a technique.

I believe the reason is because he didn't create a single technique. I challenge everyone to do their own research. Many people may have been duped because they haven't done any research into this family and just accepted their story, indoctrinated and never questioned what they have advertised the most, that Helio Gracie allegedly created submission grappling/jiu-jitsu techniques.

 

[greenocelot]

You are right. It is well cited that Mataemon Tanabe, the person who is directly and indirectly responsible for ground fighting in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, was known for his slight build and the use of leverage to overcome his opponents. Just look at Great Japan Judo History and also look at the Fusen Ryu vs Kodokan challenge matches.

 

[Gorbag]

Creating leverage is waaaay better than just inventing single techniques...

 

[lts5025]

I would be surprised if any of the first generation of Gracies invented any techniques. I think you have to go pretty far into the modern era of BJJ to find any techniques that weren't already in judo.

 

[lechien]

Who cares about creating techniques?

He was interested in teaching private classes to rich businessman.

 

[Gorbag]

You are right. It is well cited that Mataemon Tanabe, the person who is directly and indirectly responsible for ground fighting in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, was known for his slight build and the use of leverage to overcome his opponents. Just look at Great Japan Judo History and also look at the Fusen Ryu vs Kodokan challenge matches.

Claiming that one person is responsible for the development of groundfighting is similar to say that all the new avant garde BJJ stuff is created by one person alone. The large number of judo newaza techniques was a product of many persons over many years, same as now happens in BJJ...

 

[freaky]

BJJ or GJJ came from Judo which came from JJJ. Kano who learned JJJ altered it and started using off balance and other stuff and called it Judo. Maeda one of Kano's students went to Brazil and taught Gracie's Judo or Newaza.

Maeda didn't call it Judo cuz the Judo people didn't like him being a prize fighter so he called it Jiu Jitsu. Then Gracies renamed it to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. They didn't create anything. All the submissions you see them use was already created way back in the 1800s. There are Judo books/pics of said technique.

Only thing is that the Gracies focused on newaza or the ground game aspect while Kano/Judo focused on the stand up part. But back in the days, Judo had both stand up and ground game.

The reason why Kano focused on stand up cuz it was also olympic and ground game was boring. Even the rules in Judo is set up for olympics. We are starting to see BJJ rules go the same way. Now you have people who classify BJJ as purely sport and GJJ as self-defense.

Wish we have an old school dojo/gym that teaches old school Judo+ground work for self-defense and not just sport BJJ or sport Judo.

You see teachers go "you can't do that, cuz it's against the rules" lmao

 

[BJJArsenal]

No one claims that the Gracies invented moves in that way, they just chose the techniques they believed could work on anyone, with a focus on leverage and survival.

 

[lechien]

. Then Gracies renamed it to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. T" lmao

Nope, they still call it Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Who cares about creating techniques?

He was interested in teaching private classes to rich businessman.

And now people are free to teach to anyone who pays the monthly fees. Oh, and offer privates.

 

[sha]

I guess going by your logic the real hero of BJJ is the Submission 101 guy…

 

[Gorbag]

As the inventor of Gorbag jiu-jitsu I'm now going to sell my style of recycled judo to ignorant Muricans! The planned challenge matches to promote the new style will be after my rules in a pit with concrete sement floor - lets put the ukemi of all those cool cat jiujitseros to a test...

 

[Liquid Smoke]

I can honestly say I don't give one flying shit what some guy in the 40's did or did not do.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You came to the grappling To post this ground breaking news?

 

[EndlessCritic]

the person who invented the armbar is not as good at the armbar as ronda rousey.


grappling is not about who "invented" techniques. refinement, which is its own form of invention, is just as important.

 

[greenocelot]

Claiming that one person is responsible for the development of groundfighting is similar to say that all the new avant garde BJJ stuff is created by one person alone. The large number of judo newaza techniques was a product of many persons over many years, same as now happens in BJJ...

I said he was responsible for it, not created it. Being influential and creating something are two different things. One person claiming they created ground fighting and leverage is arrogant beyond all belief. It undermines hundreds of years of history and contribution of thousands of people.

The thing we can thank the Gracies for is that they kept alive the Fusen Ryu alive, outside the hands of the Kodokan, who put an end to kosen rules Judo in 1925 (with the exception of the imperial universities tournament), and by doing so greatly watered down Judo's ground fighting . They kept alive a style that was developed in Japan over hundreds of years and developed by many people.

 

[Dogstarman]

God damn. Another one of these Gracie hate threads. We all know about this shit it's old news. It's all marketing. You know what?! Without the Gracie's we wouldn't even be talking about this shit in this forum. The UFC wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be practicing bjj.

I'm not even a big Gracie follower. I am tired of all the negativity. Why are you so concerned about these issues? They exaggerated some truth to sell their product. Well son, life isn't fair. I took a high paying job 14 years ago based on promises. I'm still waiting for those promises to be fulfilled. I was lied to but I can't quit because the benefits are to great to leave and the pay can't be matched in other similiar positions. So when I hear people bitch about this shit it rustles me.

I go to and talk jiu jitsu to get away from my daily problems and focus on something that I love doing. If it wasn't for the Gracie marketing I wouldn't be doing this shit and neither would you. Maybe we would still be stuck in the 80s believing that we can keep it standing and in one knock out punches (dim mak).

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

Who cares and who said he did.
Michael Jordan didn't invent moves or shots for basketball.
Wayne Gretzky never invented moves in hockey.

On and on and on but at their time, they were able to do their craft better than the rest of the world. You cannot deny weather he invented it or not he went on to teach his sons to take jiu jitsu to the next level. Including fighting mma and doing pretty darn good at it.

 

[Powerchutek]

The Gracie haters should just quit BJJ, study JJJ only, and see how their absolutism works out.

Grandmaster Helio MODIFIED existing techniques from the Japanese art to fit his own small and weakened frame. His version of the art is evolving and non-doctrinal, with emphasis on the concepts of leverage and efficiency. Using techniques created for trainining ancient Samurai warriors on the ground, he forged a new art that can work for essentially anyone with enough practice if the concepts are applied.

The Gracie family with help from many others created a revolution in martial arts that is still changing the world. The Internet allows new techniques and modifications to be created and shared daily around the world. With MMA, it is truly limitless. Judo, JJJ, and basically all other arts lag far behind and always will for many reasons--and marketing isn't one of them.

They didn't do everything, but the Gracie contribution is paramount, unique, and essential. Denigrating them is absurd and ignorant.

I have not trained a single day at a Gracie school and don't know any of them. To me it is about respect and historical accuracy of the things in which I am involved.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Grandmaster Helio MODIFIED existing techniques from the Japanese art to fit his own small and weakened frame.

Yes, the Japanese people, with their unusually large bodies, had not tailored their martial art to people of smaller frames.