Heard of thecas armbar before? Arm bar from the guy inside back mount?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by thecas, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    This surprisingly happened to me today. It seemed to have been done accidentally, but if my opponent knew that I had felt pressure, he could have went forth in the correct angle and gotten me tapped!

    Ok, I was almost in back mount; we were side by side but slanted[Does not matter. Will work in back mount too.

    I went forth and encircled his neck with my right arm. However, he got hold of my left which was about to finish the choke[ LegHooks not in yet but does not matter]

    Both of his hand held tightly to my arm onto his stomach or chest[2 arm v 1, he wins]. So my left upper arm was on his left shoulder and neck. For a moment he pushed back upwards[towards where both our heads were pointing. There was the armbar. If he pushed upwards more forcefully and maintained it there, I would hav tapped. He was almost on me then and obviously with his full weight on me[so I had to carry 2 weights, my own n his] and that he has his legs on the floor, only he can move. Wow.

    You all shld try it.

    Let me patent this move as thecas armbar ... popularise it.
     
  2. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    I HAVE seen this... I call it the "meathead armbar", where you just grab at something, throwing the whole "position before submission" concept out the window, and just wrenching on something, all strength.

    See also:

    "meathead guillotine" (From under side control!!)
    "meathead lapel choke" (Slap it on from his guard!! Or under the mount!!)
    "meathead keylock" (From ANY position!!)
     
  3. lol. i have to aggree SS has a point.
     
  4. UFChvwghtchamp

    UFChvwghtchamp Orange Belt

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    try to turn your arm, should get out easily, i guess u wouldve tried that though. but yeah its a meathead move
     
  5. farmboy

    farmboy Banned Banned

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    Obviously it didn't work, anyway. That sounds like some type of traditional jujutsu hold that works great against a cooperating opponent.
     
  6. Smorra

    Smorra Blue Belt

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    I've done that to new white belts who I've let get my back, to demonstate that they need to be careful with their arms. Its a common counter if the person choking is sloppy with their non-choking arm. I've never seen it work against anyone decent, but I imagine it could still work if the person applying the armbar had a strength advantage and a tight two on one grip of the wrist of the arm they're locking, to prevent the choker from turning their elbow to get out.
     
  7. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    nothing is immobilizing your elbow, you can rotate your arm to get out - the opposite way you would for hitch-hiker armbar escape.
     
  8. 2om30

    2om30 Red Belt

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    that was my first thought....turn your arm.
     
  9. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    I think Bas has a variation of this on his DVDS where he traps the arm by putting his hand on the back of his neck, pointing his elbow forward and grabbing the wrist of the arm that is going to be behind your head so their palm is pointing upwards. If you do that they hopefully won't have the space to rotate the arm. But if he is just grabbing your wrist with both hands... turn your elbow out.
     
  10. Lester McGrath

    Lester McGrath Yellow Belt

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    is meathead another term for catch-wrestling?
     
  11. Col. Angus

    Col. Angus Brown Belt

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    If he turns his arm, transition to the three stooges eye poke
     
  12. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    Why does it require lots of strength? To pull your arm in regular armbar needs lots of strength too?

    Also, when he pulls[again, 2 arms vs 1]your arms str8, how will turning your arm help if it is still str8[again coz 2v1]? its like you are telling me you do a reg armbar and turn it ang its gone[I understand about turning AND moving in the direction of your other hand but with his 2 arms on ya 1 he can jus straighten it n its still armbar.
     
  13. Mirada

    Mirada Brown Belt

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    I love this one.
     
  14. Smorra

    Smorra Blue Belt

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    The strength it seems to require is more grip strength, on his wrist, to keep him from turning his arm. This is also true, to a lesser extent with a regular armbar but you don't have your knees pinching his arm to help stop it from rotating, and with the positions of your bodies to each other, he only has to turn his arm to get out, not his whole body, so the less strength dependent things that can prevent a person from turning their arm and body over and out of a regular armbar, such as crossing your feet under their far armpit, or grabbing their near leg, along with their arm, don't apply.
     
  15. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    I summarize, but this is not true. As long as you maintain his arm str8, it doesn't matter where his arm is turned towards, except if his elbow is pointing to the ceilling which is impossible in that situation.

    Just extend your hand srt8 in front of u, place a fulcrum on your upperarm, then press down on your lower arm with something. I tried it.. tapping pressure felt in elbow regardless of angle. [fulcrum in thecas armbar will be your shoulders. Same concept]

    All explanation wont match real experience. Any1 tried it out? the person on the top[inside back mount] will need to bridge a little bit and move forward[in direction of the head] though, to maximise the fulcrum

    There was this mention of Bas rutten's method. However it seems more difficult than thecas armbar, for 2 significant reasons:

    1]your own head is in the way of gettin the arm to the other side.

    2]when the arm goes the other side, he can defend juz like in reg armbar by grabbing his own arm since it is very near or if it is too late, push the head/neck off [with the unheld arm]since the neck/head is the fulcrum here
     
  16. sakufan

    sakufan Purple Belt

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    HAHAHAHA Nice! :D
     
  17. Smorra

    Smorra Blue Belt

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    How is it impossible for them to turn the point of their elbow away from your shoulder? The couple of times that this type of armbar has been attempted on me, I have gotten out of danger by turning my wrist (in both cases my left wrist, turning to the right) and pointing my eblow away from his shoulder (up and to the left), releaving the pressure. Neither of the people who attempted it on me had the stregth to prevent this just by holding my wrist, but if they had been much stronger than me, they might have been able to, that's why it seems to me to be a strength dependant move. If it were a self defense situation, where you could yank it down as fast as possible to immediately break it and not attempt to submit the person, that seems like it would preempt this counter.
     
  18. spiderguardman

    spiderguardman Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    some judo guys i roll with usually try it, i never tapped to it but it makes you loose focus, it's more of a setup for an escape than a real sub.,
     
  19. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    I realised an improvision! Till the point that I tapped some1 today.

    Ok, say u are behind me and your left hand is the one in reference. I will grab your left wrist with me right hand. With my left hand, I will go on top and over your hand and grip my right arm above my elbow.

    Now the direction of my force for my right hand will be down and to my left. My left arms force will be mainly to keep both arms down as well as a little of pulling my right arm to the left also.

    Overall about 65% of the force will be to keep the hand down while 35% will be towards the bottom left. This will sub you regardless where your arm is pointing. If you keep it str8, the shoulder is the fulcrum while if u turn it as was mentioned, my left upper arm will be the fulcrum. try it. It works.
     

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