Have you ever been coached against?

[finalboss]

Well, I joined this school and I remember within the first two weeks that when I was rolling with a girl, the coach was telling her what to do which ended with the rest of the class cheering her on when I was the new guy. Maybe it was because she was a girl and that I outweighed her, but I felt that was a pretty fucked up way to introduce the new guy to the school.

Anyway, months later, new instructor, whenever I was in an inferior position, the coach would tell my opponent what to do instead of helping the guy who was in trouble. Now what I felt here was that, since he would compete, that the coach was looking to improve him at my expense. I don't know if this is right or wrong since I've been there for a while, but haven't improved much, because my major depressive disorder and 3 different anxieties have done a number on my memory and all that other stuff that comes with it. I know I suck. Maybe they feel like I'm a lost cause and not worth being focused upon?

Now I don't do anything wrong that I know of since I have trained before at other schools. I show respect, I don't yank extremities, I bathe, I wash my gi, the basics. But I can't figure out for the life of me what's going on. Is this some weird aspect of the culture that I never knew about?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ton]

Don't over think it. If you were not welcome there they would let you know. If you like training keep on training.

Now that i got that out of the way.

Yes i have been coached against both in the gym and in competition. In competition, one particular time, it was very annoying because the guy was clearly stalling after getting the TD and his coach was helping him stall by telling him the sweeps/subs i have been attempting. The guy was listening well too (i lost the match by TD Q.Q.)

The few times i've been coached against in the gym were when i was rolling against fairly inexperienced people. I thought it was great, it clearly helped them do better against me and they proved to be more of a challenge. It also makes you think about the roll more then just feeling your way through it which can be beneficial at times..

There was also this one time when an inexperienced guy was telling me how to use my weight in mount when i was going easy on my out-of-shape WB training partner.. that was annoying as hell... he wouldn't shut up ether: "grapevine dude, you gotta grapevine" ... a stare and "im going light" seemed to shut him up tho (cant say it made my training partner feel better,however)

But anyway, i think its all good. they are telling people what to do, and you understand what they are doing better.. so now you know what to prevent/expect next time and think about ways to counter it.

As far as depression stuff... try to ignore it and make it to class. If you keep showing up and keep showing that you want to improve people will warm up to you.

 

[SummerStriker]

It's hard to coach against someone.

Imagine yourself in a boxing match. You like throwing a lead jab, followed by the lead hook. You don't realize it, but when you throw the jab, you drop your left hand.

Then you hear someone say, "he drops his hand when he jabs so come in with an overhand." What are you going to do? You're going to start keeping that hand up.

Hell, the opponent using right technique by itself can clue you in on what to do. I remember I was in a class and matched against a smaller but much better guy who was putting me in a gi choke of some kind, and I didn't know what to do. He reaches his hand down and pins my hip while finishing the choke, and it drew my attention. I thought, "why is he blocking me there." Being bigger, I went against it, having faith he was trying to stop me from doing the right thing. He was. I got out.

He should have finished me and gotten the tap without showing me the way.

You need to learn to make lemonade, like Queen B. If you can hear the other person being coached, you can learn everything they are learning. You can plug your holes and then copy their attack later.

 

[Naja]

Yes, several times in different gyms. It's messed up when the instructor does that and you are a newbie. I have been in both sides. I was also coached by friends that were black belts when I still was a blue belt, and even though it helped I felt bad for the other dude (bc he thought the guy was trying to help HIM out). Once I was training with a black belt and other 3 black belts kept on repeating stuff like - "This kids is a blue belt and he just swept you!" "This kid is a blue belt and you are not even able to pass his guard!" "I can't believe you are taking a beating from a blue belt!" Even though I was far from giving a beating on the guy that did really piss him off, and he just started to try to hurt me and use as much strenght as possible. In the end of the roll I was pissed because I was hurt and he was pissed becaused he had a hurted ego.
When I was a purple belt the same thing happened. I got a black belt's back and the black belt teacher kept on shouting that he was getting his ass whooped by a purple belt (even though he is way older than me and just trains as a hobby). That was really direspectful and at the end of the roll I just told the black belt he shouldn't care about what the guy was saying, and that he had a great defense and I was just lucky that day. Sometimes you're just in a bad day and you get tapped out by a lower belt.. That has happened to me multiple times, but it can bother a lot when someone else see's it and keeps on calling you out for it.

 

[deadlizard]

Bring coleslaw to butter up your coaches and teammates next time.

 

[j123]

Depends. Say I'm rolling against someone in camp for an upcoming tournament/event (whereas I'm not), our coach will give more pointers in a roll to my training partner compared to me, 3:2 ratio. Its not coaching for the duration of the whole round per se, coach comes by occasionally and says something like "you have a scissor", or "make a frame" and walks off to the next pair rolling, etc.

I don't mind, they're the priority in that state to be fair.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

been on both ends but doesnt happen often. sometimes when they are coaching a white belti feel obligated to let them work if they do what they are being told. i mean, im pretty sure the instructor knows his purples can shut down most whites easily regardless of the advice being given to them so i fig its also theur way of telling me to let them work, let them see what this guy knows etc

 

[Gabicho]

Breaking news:
If you can listen what the coach is telling the other guy what to do, pay attention. You will know what your opponent is supposed to do, so you can also counter.
Coaching goes both ways.

That is why in competition many coaches use signs, codes, and ambigous calls as to what to do.

As for who to coach and when, that is the coach's job. He needs to balance out the priorities like:

Who is going to compete?
Who has the best chances of winning in competition?
Who needs the most advice?
Who LISTENS to the advice?

I know a couple of coaches that are terrible in this aspect, and always help their "favourites", for whatever reason, and never help certain other people. It's their call and responsability.

 

[Coati858]

My first match of my first tournament (couple months ago) my opponent's coach was using one of those plastic cone "megaphones" and shouting nonstop to his guy through the whole 5 minutes.
Distracting as hell (I guess that was the point).

 

[j123]

My first match of my first tournament (couple months ago) my opponent's coach was using one of those plastic cone "megaphones" and shouting nonstop to his guy through the whole 5 minutes.
Distracting as hell (I guess that was the point).

Did you use his coach's advice and devise counters from it?

It happened in my first Muay Thai fight, my opponent's corner kept yelling 3,2,3, when it was thrown, I blocked the 3, and countered on the 2, it felt pretty cool.

 

[TehGwarch]

This stuff always happens, it's better if you don't GAF.

Coaching is stupid, people should STFU. It's like someone said, your opponent probably understand english so unless it's in a foreign language or coded it's counterproductive.

The worst is when people are trying to coach you who never watch you roll.

They're like "close your guard", when that's the worst thing I do, piss off. Or I'm about to go for a sub, they scream it out and the opponent starts defending. God damn you!

Whatever anyone tells me to do I will never do. Now generally people stick to coaching my opponent. It's quite handy because then I know exactly what he's about to do.

My favorite sound is, "you got it, you got it. awwww" lol

 

[j123]

My favorite sound is, "you got it, you got it. awwww" lol

Worse one for me was one time I got a pretty clean wheelbarrow sweep, then the assistant coach interrupted the roll to show how my rolling partner how to prevent it. WTF.

 

[finalboss]

Don't over think it. If you were not welcome there they would let you know. If you like training keep on training.

The few times i've been coached against in the gym were when i was rolling against fairly inexperienced people. I thought it was great, it clearly helped them do better against me and they proved to be more of a challenge. It also makes you think about the roll more then just feeling your way through it which can be beneficial at times..

But anyway, i think its all good. they are telling people what to do, and you understand what they are doing better.. so now you know what to prevent/expect next time and think about ways to counter it.

As far as depression stuff... try to ignore it and make it to class. If you keep showing up and keep showing that you want to improve people will warm up to you.

That's the problem, with my anxiety disorders I can't stop overthinking. It has control of me than I of it. I do listen to what the coach says and I do try to counter it, but it's still difficult, because I'm not learning, because my mind is never in the moment. It's here and there and every else. And as far as making it to class I do, but my brain messes with the way I see reality. Although you are right, they haven't talken to me, but again my perception of reality is distorted. Thank you for your advice.

Depends. Say I'm rolling against someone in camp for an upcoming tournament/event (whereas I'm not), our coach will give more pointers in a roll to my training partner compared to me, 3:2 ratio. Its not coaching for the duration of the whole round per se, coach comes by occasionally and says something like "you have a scissor", or "make a frame" and walks off to the next pair rolling, etc.

I don't mind, they're the priority in that state to be fair.

Problem with that is that he doesn't give me advice at all, even when I'm at an inferior position.

been on both ends but doesnt happen often. sometimes when they are coaching a white belti feel obligated to let them work if they do what they are being told. i mean, im pretty sure the instructor knows his purples can shut down most whites easily regardless of the advice being given to them so i fig its also theur way of telling me to let them work, let them see what this guy knows etc

He coaches the higher ranks than the lower ranks (me).

As for who to coach and when, that is the coach's job. He needs to balance out the priorities like:

Who is going to compete?
Who has the best chances of winning in competition?
Who needs the most advice?
Who LISTENS to the advice?

I know a couple of coaches that are terrible in this aspect, and always help their "favourites", for whatever reason, and never help certain other people. It's their call and responsability.

That's what I kinda figured out. I am way far from competing and the guys I roll with are very good. I kinda understand that and don't really blame him for that. I'd probably do that as well, but I definitely, would help out the lower ranks to bring them up.

 

[mattemate]

I'm sorry, but this really seems like TS is just flat out paranoid. Just fucking improve your technique, and it won't matter if the Ghost of Helio is whispering in your opponent's ear like Obi Wan Kenobi.

 

[Calibur]

Living in Japan it used to happen almost every session. It actually made me realize that I was kind of seen as an antagonist in the gym. Like I would be training someone who was around my weight and level and he would get a slight advantage on me and all of a sudden veterans in the gym would stop what they were doing and start coaching him.

I got along with everyone there but moments like that reminded me that they kind of saw things from an "us vs him" frame.

 

[finalboss]

I'm sorry, but this really seems like TS is just flat out paranoid. Just fucking improve your technique, and it won't matter if the Ghost of Helio is whispering in your opponent's ear like Obi Wan Kenobi.

Uh, yeah. You musta missed the mental illnesses part...

 

[Dogstarman]

It's your mental illness man. You see what you want to see. You need to stay on your meds and keep seeing your dr.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

It's hard to coach against someone.

Imagine yourself in a boxing match. You like throwing a lead jab, followed by the lead hook. You don't realize it, but when you throw the jab, you drop your left hand.

Then you hear someone say, "he drops his hand when he jabs so come in with an overhand." What are you going to do? You're going to start keeping that hand up.

Hell, the opponent using right technique by itself can clue you in on what to do. I remember I was in a class and matched against a smaller but much better guy who was putting me in a gi choke of some kind, and I didn't know what to do. He reaches his hand down and pins my hip while finishing the choke, and it drew my attention. I thought, "why is he blocking me there." Being bigger, I went against it, having faith he was trying to stop me from doing the right thing. He was. I got out.

He should have finished me and gotten the tap without showing me the way.

You need to learn to make lemonade, like Queen B. If you can hear the other person being coached, you can learn everything they are learning. You can plug your holes and then copy their attack later.

I have coached white and blue belts at tournaments and I would have to disagree with you when it comes to jiu jitsu. Looking at two people rolling from a distance you can start to see what people are setting up and see tendencies people have that could lead to submission attempts. Part of it is relationships too. When I rolled with those guys in the gym I would always coach them while rolling. They trust me, I know their strengths and weaknesses. So it worked

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

Sometimes some gyms you need to fit in first. I am not saying you are doing this but I know when new people come in to our school there are different types of people. Those that fit in the quickest are very humble, ask questions and listen more than they talk, if they did another martial art or trained somewhere else they mention it but don't talk about it.
Mental health is a real issue that probably leads to relationship ship issues outside of jiu jitsu too. Keep on your meds and just try to be humble and quiet.

Oh and coaching in the gym is a real thing. Actually I bet if you went to the instructor on the side and said hey I have been here for a couple months. What do you think I need to work on the most. And then shut up. Don't correct him don't interrupt him. Just listen. When he is done say Thank you. That's it. Bow shake his hand what ever you normally do and that's it. I bet the next class he changes a little

 

[The Colonel]

I can empathize with your mental illness issues and training problems. I myself suffer with anxiety problems, panic attacks and depression.

You're not "paranoid". Often I find that I am more aware to things that other people miss.

I am pretty much always being coached against. I think part of this is because I've been doing jiu-jitsu for many years and I'm usually better than guys I roll with. If they are more on my level there tends to be no coaching, usually guys just kinda watch or occasionally my instructor may joke on me a bit for a mistake I made.

I kind of look like at it like this. If they are coaching against you, well, maybe the other person needs more help in their game than you--this could be true even if they are beating you at that specific moment. I've noticed that some students become sort of like a "pet" for the instructor, maybe they started with him/her when they were young and just grew up with the instructor as their student. Or maybe the instructor sees something in their physique or game that clicks with their specific game. It follows that a small, light instructor could get more out of sharing his style of jiu-jitsu with a student built like him than some big, corn fed hoss. It doesn't mean he doesn't care for his other students.

It bothers me a little. Why is my instructor always taking so and so aside and helping them out? In the end it doesn't matter. The study of jiu-jitsu is an intensely personal one--who among us hasn't thought "god I really suck at this" or "I just got smashed by someone I should beat" or whatever--and often it will play hell on your body and your self esteem. You can keep training or you can stay at home.

My advice to you is to suck it up. Keep on training jiu-jitsu and just keep working on what you know. Go to the gym, put in your time, and get better. If you keep running up against the same problems ask your instructor for advice. YOU take the initiative. If you feel like you aren't getting the same attention then after class ask for help.

If guys there didn't like you they wouldn't want to roll with you. Seriously. We have a guy like that at my gym and no one wants to roll with him.

Just go to practice. No matter what your anxiety may be telling you. They best thing is just showing up. Once you do that the rest will take care of itself.