Have i wasted my life, learning taekwondo?

[furious_styles]

I'm a 2nd dan WTF(olympic Style) TKD black belt who's been emersed in an MMA environment for
the last couple years. I do JKD Concepts in a school that also has BJJ,Muay Thay, CSW classes to name a few so the MMA favored styles have all influenced the JDK that I practice.

I always knew that TKD was not a complete fighting solution so I had always practiced some basic boxing over the years to complement. I too have to warn you that unless you learn the 4 ranges of fighting (kicking,punching,clinch ground) you will NOT be a complete fighter.

In JDK we spar all the time so I've had a chance to see how effective my TKD training really is and it has proven to be in several respects. Most guys never see my kicks coming
and I find my overall fighting style and my ability to apply newly learned standup techniques (low kicks, knees, kick-boxing combos...) techniques is definately enriched by my TKD training.


If your interested I got a blog describing some of my discoveries at
http://furious-styles.blogspot.com/



I've been able to leverage several things from my TKD

 

[hmong_fighter]

You havent wasted your time doing TKD because you have some serious understanding of kicking power. Just adjust your moves with the addition of hand combos and some grappling. You will be fine. In a normal street fight, a good head kick works wonders right when you get out of a clinch with a dude. Check the Peter Aerts highlight. He kicks the hell outta people right as they get out of a clinch because they drop their hands.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

I think the only real practical kicks in TKD are the front, round, side, back, and maybe the spinning hook kick.

Add the axe kick.

And then you've covered ALL TKD kicks.

 

[zdrax]

I'd look into one of the full-contact, Kyokushin or offshoot Karate based styles. I'm a TKD practitioner that recently jumped ship. One thing I didn't realize prior to training in Kyokushin was the fact that Mas Oyama nearly brought his Karate into the TKD umbrella. I'm not sure as to what exactly transpired, but suffice to say, as a TKD practitioner coming into Kyokushin, I can offer the following observations:

1. My body was simply not calloused for full-contact, minimum or no pad sparring. This was a HUGE wakeup call. When you start getting kneed and eating shin kicks to the leg, you realize how, atleast with WTF regulated TKD, regimented your fighting perception has become. I found myself taking elbows to my legs and lots of lower body shots which in TKD you never worry about.

2. There's a huge overlap in technique. Everything is nearly the same, however Kyokushin's curriculum is broader. You'll be exposed to grappling, self-defense, throws, more intensive breaking, and body hardening exercises you don't find in TKD. In this sense, because of TKD's generally strict focus on sparring, you'll be a cut above in that aspect but be WAY behind in the self-defense and grappling.

While TKD may draw from the same palette as Kyokushin, it's the application of those techniques that makes all the difference.

 

[BJJK1]

dude, if you want to compete in TKD, then go as much TKD as you can. if you want to do mma, add grappling and boxing. it's only a waste of your life if you stop here.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

I'd look into one of the full-contact, Kyokushin or offshoot Karate based styles. I'm a TKD practitioner that recently jumped ship. One thing I didn't realize prior to training in Kyokushin was the fact that Mas Oyama nearly brought his Karate into the TKD umbrella. I'm not sure as to what exactly transpired, but suffice to say, as a TKD practitioner coming into Kyokushin, I can offer the following observations:

As nice as this sounds, I am not aware of any proof that this was actually the case.

General Choi (of ITF fame) met with Mas Oyama in the 60s, and discussed techniques and things with him. It is also believed that he invited Mas Oyama to merge Kyokushin with ITF.

But all of this is purely from Gen. Choi himself, and he's been known to, well, exaggerate. A lot.

We do know, however, that Mas Oyama used to visit Seoul in the 1940s and watch training at the Chung Do Kwan (one of the original TKD schools which later united into KTA, and then Kukkiwon/WTF).

It is impossible to say how much this influenced Kyokushin, but Kyokushin has quite a few similarities to TKD if you look closely.

1. My body was simply not calloused for full-contact, minimum or no pad sparring. This was a HUGE wakeup call. When you start getting kneed and eating shin kicks to the leg, you realize how, atleast with WTF regulated TKD, regimented your fighting perception has become. I found myself taking elbows to my legs and lots of lower body shots which in TKD you never worry about.

2. There's a huge overlap in technique. Everything is nearly the same, however Kyokushin's curriculum is broader. You'll be exposed to grappling, self-defense, throws, more intensive breaking, and body hardening exercises you don't find in TKD. In this sense, because of TKD's generally strict focus on sparring, you'll be a cut above in that aspect but be WAY behind in the self-defense and grappling.

While TKD may draw from the same palette as Kyokushin, it's the application of those techniques that makes all the difference.

This is all absolutely correct.

And no martial art is complete and infallible, whatever the Sherdog trolls will have you believe.

I've found that after a decade of TKD, my shins and insteps could take some punishment (I NEVER wear shin/instep/forearm protection), but obviously not as much as a MT practitioner or a Kyokushin karateka. Most TKD dojangs do not spend time on toughening drills anymore. That's why I do conditioning on my own. Just like I spar with friends who box to improve my hands.

At a certain point, it is your responsibility to look at your game and add to it and address the weaknesses.

Cross-training is a good thing.

 

[zdrax]

I've begun sparring with one of my training buddies with no pads. It's a completely different world from TKD. Something about fighting in the absence of bulky gear turns on an animalistic switch neurologically that puts you in a completely different head space.

TKD, especially WTF, seems to have a bias toward long limbed and lanky competitors. If you're tall, you simply have an advantage over shorter opponents given the regulations against lower body blows. However, given that I'm only 5'7", I excel in full-contact/Kyokushin regulations. When you're able to crowd your opponent and throw hard knees, elbows, and leg kicks, you can really tie up and frustrate larger opponents.

I find Kyokushin/full-contact Karate a lot more fun and rewarding. Yeah, you get bruised and banged up, but you feel a really sense of accomplishment at the end of a sparring match. I always felt so restricted in TKD, dealing with taller opponents who could throw easy head kicks because I was half their height.

Personally, I've never enjoyed Muay Thai rules simply because of the "boxing" element. After practicing Kenpo Karate, which employed boxing, and getting "rocked," I feel as much as I enjoy martial arts, I can't deal with walking around in a daze because of one too many headshots. I'll take surface bruises and broken bones before I'll deal with a concussion. My brain is my money maker, and is far too important to sacrifice for a left hook to the temple.

So, in the end, I've been extremely satisfied moving from TKD into Kyokushin. There are innumerable offshoots, and I think you'll find the transition welcoming. You'll be using your already established skills inside of an entirely new paradigm, as well as learning totally new applications and experiencing true grappling techniques for the first time.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Add the axe kick.

And then you've covered ALL TKD kicks.

Not really bro, there are many other kicks like inside/outside crescent kicks, half-moon kick, many jumping, spinning, variations of basic kicks that you learn as a higher belt. I like throwing those kicks but in an MMA match unless it just comes out of nowhere thers no reason to try to throw those kicks.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Not really bro, there are many other kicks like inside/outside crescent kicks, half-moon kick, many jumping, spinning, variations of basic kicks that you learn as a higher belt. I like throwing those kicks but in an MMA match unless it just comes out of nowhere thers no reason to try to throw those kicks.

People still do crescent kicks??!!??

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

People still do crescent kicks??!!??

Hahahah. I was taught them, they're fun to throw and they're easy to combo other kicks with but AFAIK, you wont KO soemone with them. Therfore i never throw them anymore when I spar nless its a feint or soemthing.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Hahahah. I was taught them, they're fun to throw and they're easy to combo other kicks with but AFAIK, you wont KO soemone with them. Therfore i never throw them anymore when I spar nless its a feint or soemthing.

IMHO, a crescent kick is something for warming up. It has no martial application whatsoever.

In a fight a crescent kick is either a failed axe kick or something that should have been a roundhouse kick.

I learned them many years ago. I don't think anybody has used a crescent kick in high-level TKD competition. Ever.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

IMHO, a crescent kick is something for warming up. It has no martial application whatsoever.

In a fight a crescent kick is either a failed axe kick or something that should have been a roundhouse kick.

I learned them many years ago. I don't think anybody has used a crescent kick in high-level TKD competition. Ever.

One time I was sparring and kept trying to land roundhouse kicks on my partner and he kept blocking them so I threw a roundhouse but halfway through turned it into an inside crescent kick, it kind of threw him off and then I kept turning and hit him with a back kick from the other leg. Thats about the most use Ive ever gotten out of it.

 

[JooJitzoo]

IMHO, a crescent kick is something for warming up. It has no martial application whatsoever.

In a fight a crescent kick is either a failed axe kick or something that should have been a roundhouse kick.

I learned them many years ago. I don't think anybody has used a crescent kick in high-level TKD competition. Ever.

I used them mostly for warming up. If you're doing point sparring, crecent kicks are good for combo filler. If used correctly you can really jumble someone up. Just throwing more firewood into the mix.

...but coming back to the main point... the only kicks from taekwondo that I really find good are the front, roundhouse, side and spinning back kick. ... maybe the spin heel/hook kick for special special special occasions. Chuck Norris would endorse the spin kicks.

 

[CAP-10]

IMHO, a crescent kick is something for warming up. It has no martial application whatsoever.

Mr. Filipovic disagrees. Play the video in the following link and fast forward to the 2:49 mark (after the screen reads "you are going down my friend") and you'll see a great application of the outside-inside crescent kick.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5189130600872462760

 

[Reveen]

My TKD master told me it was made so Korean soldiers could defend themselves with kicks at close range while holding weapons for long range defense.

I think you have some great TKD knowhow-How do you know if you are at a McDojang?Ive been training for about 5 months, Im currently training for my orange belt. I go to an ITF school and we train 5 days a week, 2hrs a day. We spar on wednesdays. So far, I only have sparred my master and other black belts, so I get my ass whooped on the regular. I strive to be the hardest worker there, and my master tells me I can get my BB in under three years if I work at it. Am I wasting my time, sweat, and $?

Perhaps I did'nt look hard enough, but I could'nt find any info about the instructors of that school on the website you gave.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Mr. Filipovic disagrees. Play the video in the following link and fast forward to the 2:49 mark (after the screen reads "you are going down my friend") and you'll see a great application of the outside-inside crescent kick.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5189130600872462760

I'm sorry, google video doesn't work where I live.

But I'm willing to bet that it was an unsuccessful round kick or axe kick rather than Mirko saying to himself "Hrmmm, I think I'll do a crescent kick now!"

 

[8knuckles4u]

learning and practicing any art form is not a waste...just my opinion,grasshopper

 

[Bizz]

waste? no

could have used your time doing somthing else? yes

does it matter? no - you just start fresh in a new style and have an advantage over the other newbies in terms of general training and conditioning

 

[Gryphon]

2. There's a huge overlap in technique. Everything is nearly the same, however Kyokushin's curriculum is broader. You'll be exposed to grappling, self-defense, throws, more intensive breaking, and body hardening exercises you don't find in TKD. In this sense, because of TKD's generally strict focus on sparring, you'll be a cut above in that aspect but be WAY behind in the self-defense and grappling.

How much focus is put into self-defense and what kinds of techniques are used? I was under the impression that Kyokushin is mostly striking with a few takedowns.

 

[aaron_mag]

As nice as this sounds, I am not aware of any proof that this was actually the case.

General Choi (of ITF fame) met with Mas Oyama in the 60s, and discussed techniques and things with him. It is also believed that he invited Mas Oyama to merge Kyokushin with ITF.

But all of this is purely from Gen. Choi himself, and he's been known to, well, exaggerate. A lot.

We do know, however, that Mas Oyama used to visit Seoul in the 1940s and watch training at the Chung Do Kwan (one of the original TKD schools which later united into KTA, and then Kukkiwon/WTF).

It is impossible to say how much this influenced Kyokushin, but Kyokushin has quite a few similarities to TKD if you look closely.


This is all absolutely correct.

And no martial art is complete and infallible, whatever the Sherdog trolls will have you believe.

I've found that after a decade of TKD, my shins and insteps could take some punishment (I NEVER wear shin/instep/forearm protection), but obviously not as much as a MT practitioner or a Kyokushin karateka. Most TKD dojangs do not spend time on toughening drills anymore. That's why I do conditioning on my own. Just like I spar with friends who box to improve my hands.

At a certain point, it is your responsibility to look at your game and add to it and address the weaknesses.

Cross-training is a good thing.

Yes. You are correct. Eventually it comes down to the responsibility of the martial artist himself to broaden their training to meet their goals. I also hate shin pads and stuff. It really helps when you feel that elbow slam into your ankle. You learn to avoid certain things.

On body toughening exercises: It is funny when you look at old school versus new school. Master Kim is pushing 70 and yet every class he teaches he still does body toughening (ramming together fists, forearms, shins, etc). He even runs around and says, "You over there. Harder!" Then proceeds to punch his fist against yours).

And yet he is still much softer on students than he was in the old days (and he is retired only teaching one class a week).

But we're much softer now than the old school guys...