Has USADA ever explained their false negatives?

[Roger Thornhill]

Recently when fighters have popped, it is almost always for maskers or abnormal T/E ratios. Clearly the maskers are used to mask something, and the abnormal T/E ratios are caused by something. As far as I can tell, USADA has a list of banned substances, they test for them, and they report if someone tests positive and give a sanction, that’s it.

I have no doubt that if a fighter is using estrogen blockers, they are using roids. But all of the tests they pass gives them the argument that there must be something wrong with the test since “I passed 99 tests, and out of nowhere failed one.” This argument is clearly fallacious, but there are plenty of nuthuggers and simpering morons (i.e. the modal Sherdog poster) who thinks this is a great point.

But it still begs the question: how do fighters on roids pass those 99 previous tests for PEDs? Has USADA ever given an explanation as to why they rarely seem to catch the actual PEDs? Is it just timing, that they didn’t get the test when the PED was still in the blood? Or are there maskers that work well enough to slip by USADA?

 

[Leinster Rugby]

You should ask dimspace.

Dude seems very well informed on the subject

 

[ortizgnp]

You should ask dimspace.

Dude seems very well informed on the subject

@dimspace is Novitzky?

 

[snw10mm]

there might not be as many "false" negatives as you think. They might just be negative. A false negative is a normal/negative reading on a test that actually should be positive. It is possible that tests are coming up negative due to timing issues. I would expect their tests to be sensitive enough to pick up trace amounts of banned substances. False positives would be more problematic.

 

[dim_]

Recently when fighters have popped, it is almost always for maskers or abnormal T/E ratios

No its not.. theres not a single USADA pop so far for t/e ratios, and none for traditional masking agents..




And wtf is a false negative

 

[phatron]

Recently when fighters have popped, it is almost always for maskers or abnormal T/E ratios.

Where did you get this information?

Cause its completely wrong.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

No its not.. theres not a single USADA pop so far for t/e ratios, and none for traditional masking agents..

Okay, beyond USADA, going back to whatever regime was in place before when guys were getting popped for T/E ratios. Please don't just get into semantics talking about "traditional" masking agents. The estrogen blockers may not classify as "traditional" masking agents, but they clearly play the role of masking the side effects of roids.

And wtf is a false negative

Is this a serious question? What do you think? I'm talking about when someone takes a test and passes, when they are in fact on PEDs. That is a negative (they test for having no banned substances) that is false (they are in fact on banned substances).

 

[phatron]

No its not.. theres not a single USADA pop so far for t/e ratios, and none for traditional masking agents..

do you know how long the blockers jon got caught with stay in your system?

 

[phatron]

Is this a serious question? What do you think? I'm talking about when someone takes a test and passes, when they are in fact on PEDs. That is a negative (they test for having no banned substances) that is false (they are in fact on banned substances).

Who has done that? And if they did, how would you know? lol

Don't you think its more likely that these guys are simply using stuff that USADA doesn't test for?

 

[Fraz]

USADA simply do not explain their actions , Anyone who questions them will be tested on sight.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

Where did you get this information?

Cause its completely wrong.

I'm thinking back before USADA, when guys like Overeem was popping for the test of 99 men.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

the war between dopers and anti-dopers never ends.

sometimes people are successful at evading tests.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

Who has done that? And if they did, how would you know? lol

Isn't figuring that out the point of these tests?

 

[Kyler Ruxin]

No its not.. theres not a single USADA pop so far for t/e ratios, and none for traditional masking agents..




And wtf is a false negative

every time Brock passed a PED test, it was a false negative.

 

[TheUnchosenOne]

Is this a serious question? What do you think? I'm talking about when someone takes a test and passes, when they are in fact on PEDs. That is a negative (they test for having no banned substances) that is false (they are in fact on banned substances).

It would only be a false negative if they were on, and had detectable levels of, a banned substance in their system at the time. While testing positive for estrogen blockers is a fairly strong indication they're using PEDs, that doesn't retroactively make the previous test a false negative.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

But it still begs the question: how do fighters on roids pass those 99 previous tests for PEDs? Has USADA ever given an explanation as to why they rarely seem to catch the actual PEDs? Is it just timing, that they didn’t get the test when the PED was still in the blood? Or are there maskers that work well enough to slip by USADA?

I truly believe a lot of the fighters have come off the roids or certainly toned it down. You can see the body changes every show.

 

[phatron]

I'm thinking back before USADA, when guys like Overeem was popping for the test of 99 men.

Well...your original post said "recently" which makes everyone think of USADA, not 4 years ago.

But the simple answer to that question is that they weren't doing the same testing they are now.

And as far as i understand it, you can only test for so many things. It's not like they just take the fighters blood and test it once and it tells them all the steroids that are in the blood. I'm pretty sure they have to basically do individual tests for each substance. And as they test the fighters over time and build their profile, it can help point them in the direction of what to test for.

Like they probably noticed Jones' weird TE level....so they start testing him for blockers or other pct stuff since he's likely taking a designer substance that they can't test for.

 

[neandertal]

It was during the NSAC time..

 

[mjmj]

I'm thinking back before USADA, when guys like Overeem was popping for the test of 99 men.

Well then, you know the answer to your question. There was no random testing at that point.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

It would only be a false negative if they were on, and had detectable levels of, a banned substance in their system at the time. While testing positive for estrogen blockers is a fairly strong indication they're using PEDs, that doesn't retroactively make the previous test a false negative.

Exactly, but we don't know. So simply put: does USADA (or whoever does the testing) claim that there are no false negatives, that as long as someone is on a PED at the time of testing, they will detect it (i.e. the PEDs cannot be "traditionally" masked without the masker being detected, so it's just a matter of timing). Or do they just not explain anything?