Has there been another MMA wrestler with Jones' build?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by INTERL0PER, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. INTERL0PER Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    4,652
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    I was just having a conversation with a friend about Jones and his ridiculous frame.

    Of course, his frame and reach is a HUGE advantage in many aspects of the fight, but I was arguing that it's a disadvantage in other aspects.

    Wrestling for one. Now, I'm obviously not trying to discredit the effectiveness of Jones' wrestling. He just outwrestled DC, so the proof is in the pudding. But my point is that Jones did that despite his physical tools, not because of them. He's worked out how to make his wrestling game work for his body type.

    My friend was trying to argue against this, saying that the long limbs help with leverage, which certainly seems to be true, but... is there another example of this?

    I'm been trying to come up with another example of a long, lanky fighter having so much success with their wrestling and I just can't come up with one.

    The vast majority of successful MMA wrestlers are shorter, stockier guys, or at the very least, they have average frames which are heavily muscled. When I think of great MMA wrestlers I think of DC, Hendricks, Cain, Coleman, Randleman, Brock etc... certainly not guys like Struve, Hornbuckle, Torres etc.

    The best I can come up with in comparison to someone like Jones is the TDD of someone like Barao, but his offensive wrestling isn't anything to write home about. Maybe Weidman? But again, I wouldn't call him skinny and tall, just not heavily muscled.

    So, what say you Shertards, is Jones a great wrestler despite his frame, or does it obviously help his wrestling?

    I think that he uses his frame incredibly well to help his wrestling... but that frame is usually a disadvantage when it comes to the wrestling game.
     
  2. estranged Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    7,035
    Likes Received:
    462
    not really
     
  3. yookfarb Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    8,052
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    DMV
    Jon Fitch is pretty similar. He's like 6'1" @ 170.

    There are some pretty damn great tall wrestlers out there, they aren't common at the highest level but they have more tools in MMA. I don't think it's a coincidence that Jones and Fitch never made it to the bigtime in wrestling.
     
  4. CTYankee Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    3,893
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Probably Costco
    His high center of gravity is a big disadvantage but his long limbs are an advantage.
     
  5. Epicurus White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brunson in the Middleweight Division

    He outwrestled Romero who was a olympian too
     
  6. Epicurus White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's why I was so amazed when Jones defend the single leg by Cormier with pure balance. I think that happened 2 times so it wasn't just luck
     
  7. masterless Sherdog Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Phil Davis, duh.
     
  8. INTERL0PER Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    4,652
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    Good examples. Although, I'd argue that none of them have had quite the wrestling success that Jones has had (Jones outwrestling DC is like if Fitch outwrestled GSP, for example), but that's just nitpicking really.

    So, it's kind of as I expected. It's not unheard of to be successful in wrestling with that body type, but it's far from ideal. Having that body with all that reach can be an advantage or a disadvantage. It all depends on what you do with it.
     
  9. jimbob27 Ken Shamrock Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,942
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    England
    Fitch started MMA the year he graduated, Jones dropped out of college to start MMA. It's not a coincidence neither of them made it to the "bigtime" in a sport they haven't competed in.
     
  10. INTERL0PER Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    4,652
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    This is something I think a lot of people overlooked in the build up to the DC fight.

    Yes, DC is more credentialed in wrestling... but that may be because Jones stopped wrestling and started MMA.

    Jones won the Junior College national champs and was recruited by big wrestling colleges (Iowa off the top of my head?). Who knows, maybe he would've become an NCAA All American/Champ?

    We'll never know, of course, but his wrestling is obviously very, very good.
     
  11. masterless Sherdog Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern California

    I think youre thinking about this too one sided. Jones is an anomaly. His striking is great, his wrestling is great, and he has the freakish reach of Dhalsim. Phil Davis may be as good a wrestler (hell he even tapped Gus) but since he lacks the other details, he would likely lose to Jones.

    Unfortunately, we like to think that skill beats size and strength all day everyday but it doesnt always. With men of equal skill, the bigger guy usually wins. The thing with Jones is is he has both the talent and the size. I dont see how Jones size could be a disadvantage in MMA at all.

    Perhaps if he were only doing Jiujitsu tournaments. His limbs would be much longer and someone like Marcelo Garcia would tap him.
     
  12. HOLA Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    9,898
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Teegeeack
    Darrion Caldwell is very tall and lanky for his weight class, yet brutally strong.

    [​IMG]

    He is 5 foot 10 at 145 pounds.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. AP_RESURRECTION Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    24,756
    Likes Received:
    90
    Cruz sorta but yea those kinds of comments about Jones and his unfair frame are ridiculous - some goods and bads to being long
     
  14. Iplaytolose Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah Jones never really fulfilled his potential because he had to quit college for MMA. Who knows how good he could have been.
     
  15. Squall Leonhart SeeD Commander

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    4,158
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Balamb Garden
    Leverage advantage depends on position...many places its better to be the shorter man as well
     
  16. anthony stark genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Avengers Tower
    he could've been a ufc champ
     
  17. Iplaytolose Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    0
    As far as wrestling goes, he probably could have been a D1 champ if he didn't make any babies and quit school.
     
  18. randomalias Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United States of Europistan
    The height certainly seems to help against the cage, maybe it has the opposite effect when there is no cage.
     
  19. kic** Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think TS raises a real good question. My take is that normally a tall lanky guy is not a good wrestler. However, since Jones has strangely skinny legs, within a weight class he has decent strength. That is the key. A tall lanky guy with skinny legs but strong upper body can compete with typical wrestler build.
     
  20. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,643
    Likes Received:
    543
    Location:
    Portland fuckin’ Oregon.
    Judging by the ears, there's at least one:
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.