Hardest night in the office yet- video

[Kiwi Tricker]

Hey guys, some of you may or may not know or recognise me, but I've been posting my fights here for as long as I know- usually I win, I've had a draw and a loss as well, but this is the first time I've been knocked out.

As short as the fight was, I definitely took a lot away from it- my opponent found a hole, worked it, exploited it, and finished the fight (very) early. Size and experience is probably evident between us, but the thing that should be more evident was skill difference and how we approached the fight.

Ben had a long, stiff jab and fast, accurate and hard hands. A few weeks before this bout he also won a pro boxing bout via 1R KO. Unfortunately, even with that knowledge, I still wasn't prepared for the real thing and it cost me.

Posting this because it's still my fight, and win or lose it's still a representation of where I am at the moment in the sport. This is also a huge kick up the arse to really work on finding what I need to help me get the strength and experience needed to step up to the level that these seasoned pros are on. For now though, I'm gonna have some ice cream, rest my head, and then I'll be back in the gym in a few days time.

Enjoy the video.

 

[KiraKira]

That was a pretty sneaky right cross he hit you with. I'm glad to her that you are OK (When i read 1R KO i was expecting something much worse), seems like it all boils down to a lake of experience where he managed to set a pace that you were not comfortable with.

Other than that i don't really feel that i have the right to comment further on what happened in the fight since i don't really have the experience or the knowledge necessary. I just wanted to wish you a speedy recovery and best of luck in you future fights (You obviously got skill, you will be back in no time).

 

[Brendon Katz]

Gonna be fairly brutal now so if you don't want to hear it yet don't read on.

You didn't move your feet or head at all when he attacked you. You were reacting to his attacks, you'd lift your guard. You found out the hard way that against a half-decent boxer, that doesn't cut it. On the plus side, you have the reflex speed to react in time to his attacks. The problem is, your reaction to cover turned you into a punching bag. It's your trainers job to teach you how to move. If they can't do that, find better trainers. Don't blame them though if you didn't put in the time or the effort.

Related to that and his stiff jab. It isn't particularly fast. The reason he was catching you with it was because you didn't show any sort of understanding of timing. He'd move away, you'd move forward and he'd punch at you as you stepped in. Related to movement, since you need to be able to evade punches going forward, not just backward. It's primarily timing though. You were thinking about moving forward while he was punching at you, so your mind was occupied with something other than being aware of the possibilty/opportunity of defense/counter-attack.

Secondly, you didn't cut off the ring at all. You were trying to stalk him (which you can do just as well by using movement and pressure, exhibit A - Mark Hunt), but since you were following him around he could just dance wherever he wanted.

Third, and probably least important at this stage, I saw no feints at all from you. He was catching and dealing with your kicks pretty well, but maybe you could have led him to give you some gaps by either feinting with hands and striking with legs or vice versa.

 

[MuayThaiDude]

Hey man, i've seen all the fights you've posted here and I am a fan of how you fight. What this boiled down to in my opinion was you were in the mindset of a first round MT fight; getting the pacing right and a feel for your opponent. You're a very technical and calm fighter. I think his corner simply said to go out there guns blazing. That dude was putting some pepper on his cross from the get go. I'd have to watch it again but it seems like he was just throwing power shots jab cross, jab cross...
Ok, just watched it again. Yeah, he had some good extension. Looked like a hybrid cross/hook hay maker. I'm sure if you fought him again you'd use your teep more, work the body and he'd lost some steam on those fastballs. You're a great fighter dude. You got the next one.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Somebody has to win, somebody has to lose, sounds like your dealing with the right way though.
Your allowed him to control the range and the ring positioning. Your tried to walk him down with slow steady foot work, which is fine, but every time your pushed him back a little, he's circle out, and you'd let him. In stead of blocking where he'd need to move to get back to the center of the ring, you moved to where he'd just been.Holtzken v Danials, is a nice recent example of how to apply pressure, shut the ring down and corner an opponent.

You tried to box the boxer too. Instead of staying long with kicks and teeps, then pushing straight through to the clinch, you hung out in boxing range and tried to throw with him. If you would have gone with big kicks then straight to the clinch, might have been a different story. Kick, and as soon as he tried to counter, step in to the clinch.

Maybe a couple of months in a boxing gym might change things up for you. I did and it helped my MT alot

 

[0rpheus]

Thanks for sharing. What are your trainers thoughts on the fight? I lost a decision in my last fight to very similar reasons as you against a boxer who kept circling out.

What I have primarily been working on is footwork and cutting off the ring on someone backing up. What you did is follow by walk forward. As you rotate into him with your lead leg you reveal the "punching lane" between your hands. He would pop you with a jab then hurt you with the right cross.

If someone is circling back you want to pivot to the outside by stepping with your rear leg which turns you but keeps you out of punching distance. The offensive option is cutting the circle off by stepping across with the lead leg and attacking.

Head movement, fakes, improved boxing, better guard, etc. are all things to work on but won't help till you figure out the safe way to cut off angles and adjust to your opponent.

Good luck!

 

[TheyAllFloat]

How many fight have you had? I've seen Ben fight a few times- He's a weapon.

 

[fightingrabbit]

Your boxing is terrible. Any decent boxer is going to eat you alive. He caught you with a right hand counter over the jab early on, and that was the precursor to the eventual stoppage. Getting caught with a counter over the jab like that is fatal in boxing. If everytime you put your jab out and you eat a counter, you're useless. Good luck trying to put anything else together. At that point, It stops becoming a tool/weapon and becomes a liability. I understand it's MT but this still applies.

Take those 2 knockdowns as a premonition of things to come. If you don't find a way to improve, those won't be the last, and worse, you might actually end up really getting hurt and really knocked out in the truer sense of the word.

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

Thanks guys for the input. As mentioned this has been a big eye-opener for me, and of course in regards to boxing especially. You can believe I'm going to be focusing on solely hands at least a couple days a week over the next few months.

There were a lot of things I did wrong here, and I think a lot of it was due to feeling like "if he gets me with something, I have to get him back". The result of putting that pressure on myself was blindly chasing forward, boxing against someone with superior boxing, and getting KO'd as a result. It certainly didn't help that I kept getting pegged with a counter as I was bringing my jab back. There's a lot- a LOT- to work on, and even though I'm sitting here still concussed, I'm grateful for the experience and will use it to move forward in a big way.

How many fight have you had? I've seen Ben fight a few times- He's a weapon.

This was my 15th fight overall, but my first full pro fight (5 x 3-minute rounds; have done 3 x 3s and 5 x 2s before plenty).

 

[0rpheus]

The result of putting that pressure on myself was blindly chasing forward, boxing against someone with superior boxing, and getting KO'd as a result.

Humble analysis. You got the skill set to do so much better in the next one.

And Dang, some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Muay Thai has so many tools to deal with all styles of boxing. Even a well rounded Muay Thai fighter with great boxing can be adjusted to. I love all the "tough love" people in this thread, like that will help.

A Muay Thai fight doesn't start and stop with the hands. Good luck on the recovery. Give your brain plenty of rest and hopefully you can come back stronger.

 

[fightingrabbit]

Humble analysis. You got the skill set to do so much better in the next one.

And Dang, some people are being unnecessarily harsh. Muay Thai has so many tools to deal with all styles of boxing. Even a well rounded Muay Thai fighter with great boxing can be adjusted to. I love all the "tough love" people in this thread, like that will help.

A Muay Thai fight doesn't start and stop with the hands. Good luck on the recovery. Give your brain plenty of rest and hopefully you can come back stronger.

Sugarcoating things won't help any either. In fact I'd say it's a disservice. And I'm sure Kiwi understands that as he's the one in there taking the knocks. Also I think it's entirely appropriate for me to bring up considering that's the punch that stopped him.

I made mention that I understand it's MT, but you're not doing your brain any favors if you don't learn how to jab without getting countered by a right hand. As not only is it one of the most basic counters you'll encounter most frequently, but one that will hurt you bad if you stick your jab out there lackadaisically and without moving your head.

Tough love for a tough sport. Sounds tough guy-ish but there's no room for coddling when yours or someones ass is on the line. We're not talking about someone losing in a tennis match or baseball game here. People get hurt and die in the ring. They don't die in tennis.

MT doesn't start and stop with the hands, but you're just being dull if you think it doesn't affect your game exponentially. This applies to any art. MMA has an even higher variety of ranges and factors than MT, and we've all seen how well simple defensive boxing worked for the ones who applied it scientifically, regardless of their base art.

 

[fightingrabbit]

@Kiwi Tricker:

The reason you kept eating that right hand over your jab is because your head doesn't move with it. In fact, your head remains in the same place throughout the whole fight, while you're moving around the ring, and before, during, and after you punch. It never once moves off the center line. All someone has to do is throw a right hand as your jab retracts and your head will be there every time for them, as you know all too well now.

Like hitting a watermelon with a baseball bat, you're making it too easy for them. You need to make them find it.

Watch @Sinister Tile exercise videos to see how you should be moving your head off the center with every punch .See how the kid in this clip is slipping his head out of the way with every punch he throws. It's never sitting there static in the center the whole time. Moving constantly. This way when your opponent returns with his counter straight punch your head's already out of the way.


Watch what this kid is doing in this clip and how his head is moving when he punches, and go back and compare it to what you did and how your head moved or didn't move.



A technical breakdown:



http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tile-exercise-for-boxing.2255705/

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

You looked cold. I feel like you should match your opponents energy level until you get his timing.You looked incredibly calm, which is awesome, but you can always outwardly match someone's tempo.

He was way ahead of you timing wise. It's impossible to know how you would of done if you got a chance to warm up. Maybe you would of defended properly if you saw the shots coming sooner. It's hard to tell if its just a timing issue or an underlying skill issue.

I'm not trying to make excuses for you. Honestly what I saw was a "slow start" and as a third-party I didn't read much more into it. I think rushing in was your attempt to make up for the timing gap, but all it did was give him more information about your timing. You needed to adjust; not rush. If you adjust something(anything) then he'll have to adjust something back, and now he's reacting to you slightly.

 

[Brendon Katz]

You looked cold. I feel like you should match your opponents energy level until you get his timing.You looked incredibly calm, which is awesome, but you can always outwardly match someone's tempo.

He was way ahead of you timing wise. It's impossible to know how you would of done if you got a chance to warm up. Maybe you would of defended properly if you saw the shots coming sooner. It's hard to tell if its just a timing issue or an underlying skill issue.

I'm not trying to make excuses for you. Honestly what I saw was a "slow start" and as a third-party I didn't read much more into it. I think rushing in was your attempt to make up for the timing gap, but all it did was give him more information about your timing. You needed to adjust; not rush. If you adjust something(anything) then he'll have to adjust something back, and now he's reacting to you slightly.

It's always better to lead the tempo rather than match it. If you're matching it you're always on the back foot, always responding. In other words, you're always giving your opponent the advantage. Better to interupt his tempo and impose yours.

Secondly, timing IS a skill. It's THE most important skill. It also wasn't the only skill lacking.

It takes guts for Kiwi Ticker to put this stuff up, and to open himself up to criticism this way. Like fightingrabbit said, it's a harsh business, so he's getting some harsh weaknesses pointed out. That's the fighting game though.

Kiwi, investigate for yourself what and how timing and range control works. Fencing is a good place to start.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

Yeah, okay. It's better to lead the tempo... but how? What if the other guy doesn't let you impose your tempo? It's a fine idea if your the fastest guy, and no one is ever faster.

I mean, you do say interrupt the other guys tempo, but how do you do that? The answer is you have to time the guy. You can't just interrupt him whenever you feel like. That's rushing in, and most guys think there "interrupting his rythem" when they are really just attacking blindly.

The reason I say you should match the other guys rythem is because you have too. If you can performe all your skills at a faster pace than the other guy then great - do that. But if you can't do everything that fast then you have to perform the fewer skills that you can do until you have the timing down. Then you can think ahead, speed won't matter as much.

It's funny, do you guys think he didn't move his head because he doesn't listen? Is that why being harsh is important? Idk the guy, is he stubborn or lazy or something? Why not just explain the option of moving his head in 3 sentence, and move on with your lives.

 

[TheyAllFloat]

This was my 15th fight overall, but my first full pro fight (5 x 3-minute rounds; have done 3 x 3s and 5 x 2s before plenty).

Yeah there are always a lot of things to work like the above guys have said on but I think your main problem was that you were fighting someone with 30ish? fights- a lot of which were against very strong opponents. I guess you would've known this already. Big step up.

Good shit getting in there against Ben.

 

[fightingrabbit]

Yeah, okay. It's better to lead the tempo... but how? What if the other guy doesn't let you impose your tempo? It's a fine idea if your the fastest guy, and no one is ever faster.

I mean, you do say interrupt the other guys tempo, but how do you do that? The answer is you have to time the guy. You can't just interrupt him whenever you feel like. That's rushing in, and most guys think there "interrupting his rythem" when they are really just attacking blindly.

The reason I say you should match the other guys rythem is because you have too. If you can performe all your skills at a faster pace than the other guy then great - do that. But if you can't do everything that fast then you have to perform the fewer skills that you can do until you have the timing down. Then you can think ahead, speed won't matter as much.

It's funny, do you guys think he didn't move his head because he doesn't listen? Is that why being harsh is important? Idk the guy, is he stubborn or lazy or something? Why not just explain the option of moving his head in 3 sentence, and move on with your lives.

To emphasize it's importance. I don't feel like it's something that can or should be elaborated on with 3 sentences. That's how I feel about the matter. If it doesn't float your boat then just ignore it.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

I will ignore what you said.. because it was stupid

 

[fightingrabbit]

I will ignore what you said.. because it was stupid

Whatever bro, you probably don't even train UFC.

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

Whoa, dudes, chill. I promise the tough love hasn't hurt my feelings, and I can appreciate why people are saying things the way they are. @fightingrabbit thanks for the video examples and explanations, I appreciate it.

I'm not against the tough love because I know it's all important to take on board- especially while it's all still fresh. I also realise when people have their errors and flaws pointed out they tend to throw up walls, online especially, so I understand that plays into it as well.

As said, I've taken a lot on board not only from my own experience in this fight, but from everyone's input in this thread as well. Thanks again to everyone who's thrown their 2 cents in- I'll be making a lot of effort to improve over the coming while. Hopefully I'll have a good match-up come June-July, and be able to show improvement as I go.

I do keep a training log here, which is often quite sparsely updated- I'll make an effort to get more sparring, padwork and bagwork footage up there over the coming while more regularly.