International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[what-wut]

I absolutely despise the settlers on the West Bank and most of the world does. I don't remember any excusing it. I actually have even said if Hamas just attacked the settlers on the West Bank, it’d be justified.



Yes and Israel was bombed periodically too so it retaliated. You poke the tiger and you get a response.
.

First of all I can respond with a thousand different examples of Israeli brutality. This is not even close. Having said that I condemn suicide bombing and I see them in the context of the unjust situation that keeps breeding the violence.

As for the Hamas bombing with glorified fire crackers it's almost always in response to repeated Israeli violations of previous ceasefire agreements and continued belligerence.

You condemn the settlers as if they are separate from the state. The settlers represent the EXACT nature of Israel. Half of the crimes they commit are under the eyes and protection of the IDF and you can check B'tselem.

700k live in these continuously expanding settlements that are meant to entrench this terrible status quo.


The Palestinians have a right to resist for however long they wish. It is not for me or you to tell them to accept what has befallen them.
The crusaders left after 100+ years and the French as well. The Muslims left after more than 700!

Having said that the Palestinians have accepted 22% of their original homeland and have accepted 242 for a while now and that btw also includes Hamas which wanted to negotiate 50 year hudna on 1967 (defacto acceptance) back in 2006. (this is also reflected in the 2017 charter)

but even then the Israeli's aren't willing to accept. They have NEVER offered to accept 242 which is the international consensus. As for the "Napkin deal" by Olmert it had a lot of problems. He wanted to keep 10% of the illegal settlements among other problems.

Every other deal had a ton of problems and then Israeli use it as excuse about how the Palestinians don't want peace. The biggest example of this horseshit is when they say the Arabs rejected the partition plan of 1948. Where recent fucking immigrants who were still the minority were supposed to get the majority of the land lol. If that's not absolute bullshit, nothing is.

The “napkin map” revealed

The Palestine Papers include a rendering of the Israeli land swap map presented in mid-2008 to Mahmoud Abbas.

www.google.com

I could go on and on but honestly there is no changing anyone's mind here and I'm kinda tired of useless long arguments.

So I'm just gonna leave it at this question? How are you not seeing the nature and mentality of the Israeli government in the actions of the settlers? You think they can't stop them? The settlers are SUPPORTED by the government. That should be enough for you to see that these people are not interested in peace. There are settler abuses going be DECADES.

Anyway I've said my peace and I'm out.

 

[pugilistico]

This makes me wonder how American firebombing raids on Japan would be perceived if it happened now. Hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties in Japan are pretty disproportionate to the deaths caused by Pearl Harbor. Would it be justified in the eyes of some people if the Japanese launched terrorist attacks on American civilians? Or would the Japanese leadership be villainized for refusing to surrender and prolonging the suffering of their citizens?

What about 9/11? Does it justify the deaths of countless civilian lives caused by American bombs?

 

[Strychnine]

Body of an Israeli hostage is found in Gaza, possibly alongside his son's remains, army says​

"JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli soldiers recovered the body of a 53-year-old hostage in an underground tunnel in southern Gaza, the military said Wednesday, and the army was determining if another set of remains belongs to the man's son.

The discovery of Yosef AlZayadni's body comes as Israel and Hamas are considering a ceasefire deal that would free the remaining hostages and halt the fighting in Gaza. Israel says about a third of the remaining 100 hostages have died, but believes as many as half could be dead.

Yosef and his son Hamzah AlZayadni were thought to still be alive before Wednesday’s announcement, and news about their fate could ramp up pressure on Israel to move forward with a deal.

The military said it found evidence in the tunnel that raised “serious concerns” for the life of Hamzah AlZayadni, 23, suggesting he may have died in captivity. Lt. Col. Nadav Shoshani, an Israeli military spokesperson, said the circumstances behind Yosef AlZayadni's death were being investigated."

MSN

 

[SuperAlly]

"Good guys" Palestinians, still murdering hostages

Can everyone say "WAR CRIMES"?

 

[filthybliss]

First of all I can respond with a thousand different examples of Israeli brutality. This is not even close. Having said that I condemn suicide bombing and I see them in the context of the unjust situation that keeps breeding the violence.

Ofcourse...But my primary point was not about the violence. You made it seem like walls went magically up and I was providing context to why.

You condemn the settlers as if they are separate from the state. The settlers represent the EXACT nature of Israel. Half of the crimes they commit are under the eyes and protection of the IDF and you can check B'tselem.

700k live in these continuously expanding settlements that are meant to entrench this terrible status quo.

Ok if you want to play this racist game.

If the settler terrorists represent all Israelis and their nature.
Does that mean the suicide bombers represent Palestinians and their nature?

I personally don't like stereotyping either....

The Palestinians have a right to resist for however long they wish. It is not for me or you to tell them to accept what has befallen them.
The crusaders left after 100+ years and the French as well. The Muslims left after more than 700!

The First Intifada was a valid form of resistance....The second and October 7th was not. Ask yourself what October 7th achieved in improving the status quo for Palestinians?
It is true, I don't have a place to tell them what to accept or not. But, they are fighting a losing battle....Israel is a UN recognized country, they are not swallowing the rest of Israel. That is just not happening....

Having said that the Palestinians have accepted 22% of their original homeland and have accepted 242 for a while now and that btw also includes Hamas which wanted to negotiate 50 year hudna on 1967 (defacto acceptance) back in 2006. (this is also reflected in the 2017 charter)

but even then the Israeli's aren't willing to accept. They have NEVER offered to accept 242 which is the international consensus. As for the "Napkin deal" by Olmert it had a lot of problems. He wanted to keep 10% of the illegal settlements among other problems.

Every other deal had a ton of problems and then Israeli use it as excuse about how the Palestinians don't want peace. The biggest example of this horseshit is when they say the Arabs rejected the partition plan of 1948. Where recent fucking immigrants who were still the minority were supposed to get the majority of the land lol. If that's not absolute bullshit, nothing is.

The “napkin map” revealed

The Palestine Papers include a rendering of the Israeli land swap map presented in mid-2008 to Mahmoud Abbas.

www.google.com

I could go on and on but honestly there is no changing anyone's mind here and I'm kinda tired of useless long arguments.

This was a huge strawman on your part. I was simply debunking your claim that Israel never came to the table and negotiated in good faith. We can get into the semantics of it but that is a different story. I am not even arguing that the Israel deals were 100% fair even but they definetely were deals that improved the status quo for Palestinians. The losing sides in War always get the short end of the stick, it is just how history works. It isn't fair but it is the reality of the world that we live in.

Furthermore, it is apparent that Israel won't accept the UN 242 split so why do Palestinians keep spamming it? It is a losing strategy to keep trying the same thing and expecting a different result. At some point, you have to make edits if you want a different result.

So I'm just gonna leave it at this question? How are you not seeing the nature and mentality of the Israeli government in the actions of the settlers? You think they can't stop them? The settlers are SUPPORTED by the government. That should be enough for you to see that these people are not interested in peace. There are settler abuses going be DECADES.

Anyway I've said my peace and I'm out.

I have said that Netanyahu should rot in hell and the settlements are a threat to peace....At the same time, I acknowledge the suicide bombers and Hamas' actions are as well.

I'd prefer Lapid handling this conflict instead of Netanyahu. But at the same time, Hamas is still hoarding the hostages and there isn't anything that Lapid could do different in that situation....

 

[Koya]

 

[Snubnoze707]

Glimmer of hope:



I can't imagine Kamala sharing a video of Jeffrey Sachs calling Benjamin Miliekowsky a "Dark Son of a Bitch" and blaming him for dragging the US into wars in the ME...

 

[Blayt7hh]

If a rocket attack strikes the house of a idf member or leader killing his family and neighbours... is that fair game to you ?

What about a strike at Bezalel Smotrich? Would it be his fault innocents died near him if he were targeted ?


Geniune question

If there is IDF coming and going from a house then of course it’s a fair strike. The IDF doesn’t really operate that way though.

To the second “fault” is not the word I would use. It unfortunate, but they would be legitimate collateral damage if he was the intended target.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Funny how the title will stay "Hamas launch suprise attack" even after 100K gazans will have been killed. In the meantime there's a Russia/Ukraine megathread not a "Russia launches suprise attack on Ukraine".

Not biased at all

It's almost like you forget the meaning of words.

How was Russian invasion a surprise if US knew of it weeks and months ahead and was even openly warning Russians(not to follow through) and world of it?

 

[DEVILsSON]

Troops find weapons caches in Syria border buffer zone

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/03/nx-s1-5244910/golan-heights-villagers-say-homes-were-raided-during-israeli-security-operations

https://www.israelhayom.com/2025/01/09/anti-tank-missiles-armored-vehicles-idf-seizes-cache-of-syrian-army-weapons/

https://www.israelhayom.com/2025/01/09/anti-tank-missiles-armored-vehicles-idf-seizes-cache-of-syrian-army-weapons/

IDF has released footage showing troops neutralizing explosive devices and killing at least 12 Palestinian gunmen. In an ongoing militar...

IDF has released footage showing troops neutralizing explosive devices and killing at least 12 Palestinian gunmen. In an ongoing military operation in the northern West Bank, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have released footage showing troops neutralizing explosive devices and killing at least ...

chauhanbabunathsspace.quora.com

 

[Snubnoze707]

It's almost like you forget the meaning of words.

How was Russian invasion a surprise if US knew of it weeks and months ahead and was even openly warning Russians(not to follow through) and world of it?

It's almost like you are being a willful idiot.

How was the Oct 7th attack a surprise when Israel knew about it weeks and months ahead with specific detailed knowledge of the target and the specific amount of hostages they planned to take?

 

[Rholk]

It's almost like you are being a willful idiot.

How was the Oct 7th attack a surprise when Israel knew about it weeks and months ahead with specific detailed knowledge of the target and the specific amount of hostages they planned to take?

"Who can blame the poor Palestinians for murdering as many jews as they could.
They weren't paying attention ffs, they had it coming! "

Get fucked lol,

That beeing said, its time to end this madness, release some 100 jews and end this thing if there is any sanity left in the Palestinians.

2024 has been brutal on the Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah axis, there is no hope left, it's about time that the losers take their L like an adult.

 

[Snubnoze707]

"Who can blame the poor Palestinians for murdering as many jews as they could.
They weren't paying attention ffs, they had it coming! "

Get fucked lol,

That beeing said, its time to end this madness, release some 100 jews and end this thing if there is any sanity left in the Palestinians.

2024 has been brutal on the Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah axis, there is no hope left, it's about time that the losers take their L like an adult.

Great job at completely side stepping the point.

 

[DEVILsSON]

@Snubnoze707

"
It's almost like you are being a willful idiot.

How was the Oct 7th attack a surprise when Israel knew about it weeks and months ahead with specific detailed knowledge of the target and the specific amount of hostages they planned to take?


"

Having some general information about a potential threat is not the same as what I said about Ukraine/Russia but of course you know all of that. You probably have similar to say about 9/11.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Having some general information about a potential threat is not the same as what I said about Ukraine/Russia but of course you know all of that. You probably have similar to say about 9/11.

The information wasn't general, it was specific. Arguably more specific than Putin's plans for the "SMO"...

 

[DEVILsSON]

The information wasn't general, it was specific. Arguably more specific than Putin's plans for the "SMO"...

That's an extremely subjective take.

I am surmising you're basing your opinion on something like NYT article but even that is not so cut and dry. At worst Israeli intelligence did not take the threats seriously because they thought Hamas lacked capacity. Israelis interpreted the 40 page manual as aspirational rather than tactical. The Israeli intelligence ultimately took it on the chin no doubt. However taking Russian threats more seriously makes more sense since until this war Russia was thought to be the second best army on earth so Ukrainians could not believe that Russia was incapable of going through with their war plans. It also took more than a year to go through with the attack so that hardly proves that Israelis knew of this 'impending' attack. What if Hamas waited 5 or 10 years? At what point does it become more of the same because Hamas wage wars every few years with their Intifadas?

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago (Published 2023)

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Cartiac]

First of all I can respond with a thousand different examples of Israeli brutality. This is not even close. Having said that I condemn suicide bombing and I see them in the context of the unjust situation that keeps breeding the violence.

As for the Hamas bombing with glorified fire crackers it's almost always in response to repeated Israeli violations of previous ceasefire agreements and continued belligerence.

You condemn the settlers as if they are separate from the state. The settlers represent the EXACT nature of Israel. Half of the crimes they commit are under the eyes and protection of the IDF and you can check B'tselem.

700k live in these continuously expanding settlements that are meant to entrench this terrible status quo.


The Palestinians have a right to resist for however long they wish. It is not for me or you to tell them to accept what has befallen them.
The crusaders left after 100+ years and the French as well. The Muslims left after more than 700!

Having said that the Palestinians have accepted 22% of their original homeland and have accepted 242 for a while now and that btw also includes Hamas which wanted to negotiate 50 year hudna on 1967 (defacto acceptance) back in 2006. (this is also reflected in the 2017 charter)

but even then the Israeli's aren't willing to accept. They have NEVER offered to accept 242 which is the international consensus. As for the "Napkin deal" by Olmert it had a lot of problems. He wanted to keep 10% of the illegal settlements among other problems.

Every other deal had a ton of problems and then Israeli use it as excuse about how the Palestinians don't want peace. The biggest example of this horseshit is when they say the Arabs rejected the partition plan of 1948. Where recent fucking immigrants who were still the minority were supposed to get the majority of the land lol. If that's not absolute bullshit, nothing is.

The “napkin map” revealed

The Palestine Papers include a rendering of the Israeli land swap map presented in mid-2008 to Mahmoud Abbas.

www.google.com

I could go on and on but honestly there is no changing anyone's mind here and I'm kinda tired of useless long arguments.

So I'm just gonna leave it at this question? How are you not seeing the nature and mentality of the Israeli government in the actions of the settlers? You think they can't stop them? The settlers are SUPPORTED by the government. That should be enough for you to see that these people are not interested in peace. There are settler abuses going be DECADES.

Anyway I've said my peace and I'm out.

yea, it is pointless to continue arguing who did what to who. It comes down to accepting how the world has always worked since the beginning of time. It baffles me how these Palestinian leaders and supporters keep speaking about negotiations to end dispute like they are in a position of power or even neutrality demanding concessions from Israel.

Yes, it is not for me or you to say what Israel or the Palestinians should accept, but you also have to acknowledge the undeniable reality. The more these Palestinian groups fight and resist, the more they are going to lose. There is just no other possibility given the difference in capability and international conditions. A massively stronger force is never going to make concessions to the much weaker force, that doesn't make any sense. If they did make concessions to the Palestinians, what stops the Palestinians from attacking again and demanding more concessions?

You can argue about who's right and wrong until kingdom come, but just like the lions, tigers, and bears on the Discovery Channel, we are nothing but mammals and live by the rules of the jungle as well.

 

[Snubnoze707]

That's an extremely subjective take.

I am surmising you're basing your opinion on something like NYT article but even that is not so cut and dry. At worst Israeli intelligence did not take the threats seriously because they thought Hamas lacked capacity. Israelis interpreted the 40 page manual as aspirational rather than tactical. The Israeli intelligence ultimately took it on the chin no doubt. However taking Russian threats more seriously makes more sense since until this war Russia was thought to be the second best army on earth so Ukrainians could not believe that Russia was incapable of going through with their war plans. It also took more than a year to go through with the attack so that hardly proves that Israelis knew of this 'impending' attack. What if Hamas waited 5 or 10 years? At what point does it become more of the same because Hamas wage wars every few years with their Intifadas?

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago (Published 2023)

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

You know what I'm basing it on because I've posted this multiple times in the thread. Perhaps you just ignore inconvenient information.

That was part of their intelligence that had indication a year before, but they had even more specific knowledge just WEEKS before the attack as well, amongst other warnings...

Report: New evidence reveals IDF had detailed prior knowledge of Hamas plan to raid Israel

***

www.haaretz.com

Just chalk it up for incompetence, huh? They manage to take out Hezbollah with fucking pagers but take an enormous hit by guys in Adidas sweatpants and flip-flops. In a small region where on every street corner their are soldiers with guns they take HOURS to show up to the scene that they knew was going to be attacked. Go figure...

 

[SuperAlly]

Perhaps you just ignore inconvenient information.

No shaming a hypocrite

 

[kflo]

You know what I'm basing it on because I've posted this multiple times in the thread. Perhaps you just ignore inconvenient information.

That was part of their intelligence that had indication a year before, but they had even more specific knowledge just WEEKS before the attack as well, amongst other warnings...

Report: New evidence reveals IDF had detailed prior knowledge of Hamas plan to raid Israel

***

www.haaretz.com

Just chalk it up for incompetence, huh? They manage to take out Hezbollah with fucking pagers but take an enormous hit by guys in Adidas sweatpants and flip-flops. In a small region where on every street corner their are soldiers with guns they take HOURS to show up to the scene that they knew was going to be attacked. Go figure...

those devious israeli jews just waiting for their brothers and sisters to be murdered en masse just to get a crack at those gazan's on the other side...........but you......you see right through them..................