International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

KAZSoliloquy said:
so we've moved the goalposts from "hamas was raping people on oct. 7th" to "hamas took pictures with naked and half naked dead bodies" then, yeah?
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Nope, I never said that Hamas was raping people on Oct 7, I said that I'd be surprised if it didn't happen. Here was my original statement to you:

"Do you really believe that there were no cases of rape / sexual violence on Oct 7th committed by Hamas *members*? I'm sure there were some made up accusations with a political motive behind them, but given what we know of rape being used as a weapon of war throughout history I'd be surprised if it didn't happen. And I wouldn't need to see the video to form this opinion."

I corrected my statement to Hamas *members*, so I think my original statement is reasonable with no goal posts moved, correct?
 
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Voodoo_Child906 said:
Nope, I never said that Hamas was raping people on Oct 7, I said that I'd be surprised if it didn't happen. Here was my original statement to you:

"Do you really believe that there were no cases of rape / sexual violence on Oct 7th committed by Hamas *members*? I'm sure there were some made up accusations with a political motive behind them, but given what we know of rape being used as a weapon of war throughout history I'd be surprised if it didn't happen. And I wouldn't need to see the video to form this opinion."

I corrected my statement to Hamas *members*, so I think my original statement is reasonable with no goal posts moved, correct?
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and i don't think there's any reason to think rape specifically occurred. it is possible though.
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
and i don't think there's any reason to think rape specifically occurred. it is possible though.
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So earlier you stated:

"it's reasonable to believe that there was at least instance(s) of sexual violence. rape was specifically said to be unverified."

So it's reasonable to believe Hamas members committed sexual violence but not rape? First, what's the distinction between the 2 for you, and why don't you think there's any reason to think that Hamas members would have crossed that line?
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
So earlier you stated:

"it's reasonable to believe that there was at least instance(s) of sexual violence. rape was specifically said to be unverified."

So it's reasonable to believe Hamas members committed sexual violence but not rape? First, what's the distinction between the 2 for you, and why don't you think there's any reason to think that Hamas members would have crossed that line?
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it would be the same distinction made in the investigation. taking pictures next to dead bodies that are half naked is morbid as fuck, but it's not rape.
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
it would be the same distinction made in the investigation. taking pictures next to dead bodies that are half naked is morbid as fuck, but it's not rape.
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You told me what it wasn't (taking pics next to half naked bodies), but you didn't tell me what it was. What is it specifically here?

Edit:
Also, here is what the UN Special envoy says. She specifically says "rape"

The UN’s special envoy on sexual violence in conflict has reported “clear and convincing information” that some women and children hostages held by Hamas had been subjected to rape and sexualised torture and that there were “reasonable grounds” to believe such abuses were “ongoing”

 
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Anewt said:
Almost every single media group has posted lies in regards to this fucked up conflict. All the way up to the president of usa... so actually I agree. Those who've been proven to lie are not trustworthy.....

All media and That includes the US and Israeli government as well right?

Or as long as they keep saying what you want to hear they're somehow still trustworthy to you?
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I don't consider governments as media. I consider governments as governments
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
okay, your article, the one that says this in the title:

Ms. Pramila Patten, finds sexual violence occurred on 7 October, and against hostages and calls for a fully-fledged investigation​


So what is the hesitation then with stating that it's a reasonable belief that Hamas committed rape on Oct 7th? You even listed (bolded) what they did:

It conducted confidential interviews with a total of 34 interviewees, including with survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders, health and service providers amongst others.

So multiple sources of corroborating evidence.
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Guy wants his Israeli snuff porn videos
 
Rholk said:

Bit of a different look on the propaganda piece released by Hamas & co yesterday.
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"Is this conclusive? Nope. But - as I say every time, and have been saying all day - you can’t trust a damned thing on the internet that comes out of Gaza. It’s an information war designed to get emotional overreactions. So, so many people got suckered today - this was a bad one."
 
SuperAlly said:
I don't consider governments as media. I consider governments as governments
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Fair enough. Personally it shits me more when my government lies to me. Slightly more than the media
 
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